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Empty Legacy Code seen in Continuum Conversion Tool

Issue Empty Legacy Code and Error converting PE code seen in Continuum Conversion Tool Many objects shown as "Partially converted" Product Line EcoStruxure Building Operation Environment Continuum Conversion Tool Infinet i2 BACnet B3 PE programs and functions Cause The Continuum dump file converts, but numerous errors are seen as below PE programs and functions are empty in line with the error Empty Legacy Code and Error converting PE code Resolution Create a new Continuum text dump by highlighting the b3 or Infinet controllers only (rather than the Network Controller (bCX, NC2 etc)) and create a text dump. This is achieved by right clicking on the highlighted devices, choosing "Send To" then "Text File...". Use this new text file in the Continuum Conversion Tool. If this converts correctly then there is an issue in the Net Controller configuration. Alternatively check the Net Controller configuration, specifically the "CommPort", in this example; the first 'CommPort' line should not exist and is the problem, once removed, the conversion then proceeds correctly. 'TYPE         : DEVICE                              : NAME    : TEMPLATE : DEFAULTMODE : BAUD           : ALIAS CommPort : SiteName\ControllerName : 6780       : False          : Printer                : Baud9600    : CommPort : SiteName\ControllerName : comm1   : False          : Infinet                 : Baud19200  : comm1 CommPort : SiteName\ControllerName : comm16 : False          : LON                    : Baud19200  : comm16 CommPort : SiteName\ControllerName : comm2   : False          : NotConfigured    : Baud9600   : comm2 CommPort : SiteName\ControllerName : comm3   : False          : AutoSet               : Baud9600   : comm3 CommPort : SiteName\ControllerName : comm4   : False          : NotConfigured    : Baud9600   : comm4
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Dave_Shore Schneider Alumni (Retired)
‎2020-03-24 07:23 AM

Last Updated: Sisko DavidChild Sisko ‎2020-03-24 07:23 AM

Labels:
  • EcoStruxure Building Operation
1495 Views

Deleting a point from an MNB controller in StruxureWare Building Operation

Issue Deleting a point from an MNB controller in StruxureWare Building Operation results in the following error Environment StruxureWare Building Operation: All versions up to and including 1.5.x I/A Series Micronet BACnet Controller Cause StruxureWare Building Operation does not support the deletion of points in the Application Folder of a MNB device.  Resolution To delete a point, disconnect the MNB controller from the network. Once StruxureWare Building Operation server is unable to communicate with the MNB device, it will allow the deletion of the point in the Application folder. Take note that even though the point has been deleted from the AS Application folder, the point still exist in the MNB controller.
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Picard Product_Support
‎2018-09-11 07:42 AM

Labels:
  • EcoStruxure Building Operation
1712 Views

What are the differences between the PID function included in the Script editor library and bPID as traditionally used with Continuum?

Issue Why does the PID example function in the Script editor library not operate like the bPID? Product Line Andover Continuum, EcoStruxure Building Operation Environment Script/ Plain English differences Cause PID example does not operate as expected with regard to the integral action. Resolution The Script Program editor contains various library functions that can be selected from the "Library" tab at the lower right of the editor screen. Plain English program/ function examples were available and used in Continuum and known as the "Andover Controls Standard Modules" ACSM, they are available in Where can I obtain standard Plain English example functions? This document also contains further information about the PID use and application. In both the script PIDLoop (Long version) library function and the bPID function as used in Andover Continuum the Proportional component is the same, they both use Proportional Gain which is defined as 1 / Proportional Band. In the Script Editor Library PID function this requires the Integral Gain constant, this is defined as 1 / Integral Action Time as used in the Continuum bPID function. In the Script Editor Library PID function this requires the Derivative Gain constant, this is defined as 1 / Derivative Action Time as used in the Continuum bPID function. Either of the functions may be used in the SmartStruxure Script editor, but you need to ensure your calling program is passing the correct arguments for the PID function used.
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Picard Product_Support
‎2018-09-11 07:44 AM

Last Updated: Administrator CraigEl Administrator ‎2022-08-11 12:54 AM

Labels:
  • Andover Continuum
  • EcoStruxure Building Operation
3458 Views

Personnel does not have access. Invalid Attempt messages stating "Personnel record is not yet active" seen in the Access Events

Issue Personnel does not have access. Invalid Attempt messages stating "Personnel record is not yet active" seen in the Access Events. Product Line Andover Continuum Environment Continuum Access Control Cause Personnel object Activation Date attribute is set to a future time. Resolution Open the Personnel object and confirm the Activation Date and Expiration Date fields are realistic. Make sure the Activation Date is in the past. Check that the time on the Controller and Cyberstations are synchronised properly. See Configure Time Zone and UTC Offset settings so that time is synchronized across your system for how.
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Picard Product_Support
‎2018-09-11 07:42 AM

Last Updated: Administrator CraigEl Administrator ‎2022-08-09 05:10 AM

Labels:
  • Andover Continuum
1634 Views

BACnet Alarm User Actions, Attachment and Presentation

Issue BACnet Alarm User Actions, Attachment and Presentation Product Line EcoStruxure Building Operation Environment Alarm handling and Presentation Server BACnet User Action, Attachment and Presentation Cause If the BACnet Alarm User Actions appear to be working incorrectly, the "Alarm handling and presentation" setting may be incorrect Resolution BACnet Alarm Enrollments only If the User Action, Attachment and Presentation from the Alarm itself are required then Alarm handling and presentation should be set to "Intrinsic" as below If the User Action, Attachment and Presentation from the BACnet Notification are required then Alarm handling and presentation should be set to "BACnet Notification object" as below NOTES When a b3 is created or a 3rd party device uploaded within Building Operation, the Alarm Enrollments and Alarm Notification Objects include Alarm handling and presentation properties (Presentation, User Action(Cause note, Action Notes, Comments, and Checklist) and Attachments tabs). These properties are stored only in the Building Operation Server (AS or ES) database. To use these properties, the "Alarm handling and Presentation" (in "Properties" tab “Basic”) should be set to "Intrinsic", as above, top example. The settings are saved only in the Building Operation database - as part of the notification class proxy, or the event-enrollment (or point object in the case of intrinsic alarms) proxy. Cause notes, action notes, comments, and checklist are Building Operation specific data, not part of the BACnet protocol. So there is no way for it to be sent to the device (b3, 3rd party or otherwise).
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Picard Product_Support
‎2018-09-11 07:43 AM

Labels:
  • EcoStruxure Building Operation
3538 Views

EBO SmartDriver and Smart Connector

Issue What is the difference between an EBO SmartDriver and Smart Connector? Product Line EcoStruxure Building Operation Environment Building Operation SmartDriver Cause SmartDriver and Smart Connector enhance the openness for the EcoStruxure Building Operation, EBO, BMS system. They enable integration between EBO and 3rd party systems, even via not supported or nonstandard protocols. Resolution SmartDriver: SmartDriver enables you to create a customized interface to monitor and control 3rd party devices from the EBO server. The following block diagram shows a SmartDriver Interface and a SmartDriver Driver. The SmartDriver Interface (similar in concept to other protocol interfaces such as Modbus and BACnet) is part of EcoStruxure Building Operation software and enables you to create SmartDriver objects in the System Tree pane. The SmartDriver Driver is installed on the server drive and provides the network communications control. More information at Web Help SmartDriver Overview. Smart Connector: A development framework that simplifies and accelerates integrations with third-party systems or other data sources. It is an open, extensible and configurable application framework that allows developers to create innovative new capabilities, applications, and solutions that extend and enhance EcoStruxure Building solutions. The Smart Connector itself runs outside the EBO server and consume or server data to EBO server via the EcoStruxure web services "EWS". Watch short explainer video for more information: https://www.youtube.com/embed/DXHvRRL4ycY   For more information, visit the Smart Connector Developer Community on the Exchange: https://community.se.com/t5/SmartConnector/ct-p/smart-connector   For developers wanting to get started using the Smart Connector framework visit: https://www.smartconnectorserver.com   Smart Connector shop at Exchange:  https://shop.exchange.se.com/en-US/home 
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Janeway Jonas_Brissman Janeway
‎2020-03-06 12:48 PM

Last Updated: Janeway Omaelk ‎2022-10-19 02:28 AM

Labels:
  • EcoStruxure Building Operation
5862 Views

RSTP setting on MP controller

Issue Where is the RSTP setting on a MP-C or MP-V controller? Product Line EcoStruxure Building Operation Environment Building Operation Multi-purpose Controller (MP-C) Building Operation Multi-purpose VAV (MP-V) Cause Unable to find RSTP setting on MP-C or MP-V controller Resolution On the controller, find System > Settings, scroll down to Configuration and enable RSTP. ** Be sure to Warm start each controller after enabling RSTP or the setting will not be retained **
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Sisko DavidChild Sisko
‎2020-03-13 03:32 AM

Last Updated: Admiral Alan_Wood Admiral ‎2020-04-28 06:13 AM

Labels:
  • EcoStruxure Building Operation
3545 Views

EcoStruxure Workstation or editors can't get license when using firewall (errors -15 or -96)

Issue When PC based firewall's are used, some configuration in the license system and in the firewall are required to be made. In some cases, the error below when logging into Workstation appears: License server machine is down or not responding (Error code -15 or -96) Product Line EcoStruxure Building Operation Environment Building Operation Workstation Cause The TAC license (taclic) vendor daemon by default uses a random port each time it's started. This setting makes it difficult to handle in a firewall. Also the various EcoStruxure programs using the license system needs to be allowed in the firewall, as well as the ports used by the license system. Here is a simple explanation of how the license request from a client is made. Resolution Make sure there is a valid license installed on the license server. For more information read Requested license not available for Enterprise Server, Workstation or editors The easiest way to configure Windows firewall, is to run the SBO Firewall Config tool on all PC's having EcoStruxure software installed. For any questions regarding the use of this tool please contact the developer, details in the tool. In order to manually make the configuration follow the steps below. For more information on how to create Windows firewall rules, read Creating Inbound and Outbound Windows Firewall Rules.   On the server PC Make the port used by the vendor daemon fixed. Follow Define the port used by the taclic vendor daemon guide to do that. On the PC having the license server installed, open the following TCP ports in the firewall both inbound and outbound.  80 443 4444 2170 27000 through 27009 (If a user defined defined port has been used other than 2170 for the vendor daemon then use that instead of 2170)   On the client PC On the PC having EcoStruxure software installed using the license server on a remote PC, make these exceptions in the firewall: Allow ports TCP 80, 443, 4444, 2170 and TCP 27000 through 27009 both inbound and outbound. (If you defined a port other than 2170 for the vendor daemon then use that instead of 2170) Allow the following programs: SE.Graphics.Editor.exe SE.SBO.Script.Editor.Proxy.exe SE.SBO.ScriptEditor.exe SE.SBO.WorkStation.exe SE.WorkStation.IA.WptEd.exe tam32.exe They are typically located here: On 32 bit OS: C:\Program Files\Schneider Electric StruxureWare\Building Operation 1.X\WorkStation On 64 bit OS: C:\Program Files (x86)\Schneider Electric StruxureWare\Building Operation 1.X\WorkStation
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Picard Product_Support
‎2018-09-11 07:47 AM

Last Updated: Administrator CraigEl Administrator ‎2022-08-07 10:37 PM

Labels:
  • EcoStruxure Building Operation
19137 Views

Connecting an I/NET SubLAN to a Security Expert SP-C

Issue You are transitioning an I/NET security system to Security Expert The I/NET subLAN must be moved from a 779x controller over to an SP-C Product Line Security Expert, TAC INET Environment I/NET Controller (779x) Security Expert Controller (SP-C) Cause As you transition an I/NET system to Security Expert, you will reach a point where you are ready to start moving your I/NET subLANs over to SP-Cs. Resolution Use the following instructions to connect an I/NET subLAN cable to a Security Expert SP-C. At the I/NET 779x controller, disconnect the subLAN cable. At an SP-C, connect the subLAN cable as follows:       Attach the positive (+) wire to Reader Port 1 pin "D0".       Attach the negative (-) wire to Reader Port 1 pin "D1".                        If you wish to establish a closed-loop subLAN configuration, connect the other end of the subLAN wires to SP-C Reader Port 2 in exactly that same manner as you did at Reader Port 1.
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Ensign RichardWa Ensign
‎2020-03-04 05:41 AM

on ‎2020-03-04 05:41 AM

Labels:
  • EcoStruxure Security Expert
  • TAC INET
919 Views

Time Change errors in b3 Trend log data.

Issue The following time change errors are appearing in the trend data from b3 controller.     Environment Trend logs Cause b3 firmware was at 4.500029.  Current release is 4.500076 Resolution The issue was corrected by upgrading all b3 controllers to 4.500076.
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Picard Product_Support
‎2018-09-11 07:47 AM

Labels:
  • EcoStruxure Building Operation
1000 Views

Building Operation Content Type Application

Issue Content Types are not working correctly. A Content Type that was just created appears under the ES but not under the AS in which it was created in. Product Line EcoStruxure Building Operation Environment Building Operation Enterprise Server Building Operation Workstation Building Operation Automation Server Premium Building Operation Software 1.9 or greater Cause Problems with or changes to the network configuration are affecting both the function and the lead shadow relationship of Content Types. Resolution   The following video will help us, Understand the Lead/Shadow aspects of Content Types Diagnosis and correct possible issues regarding the Lead/Shadow Online help topic for further information is also available here: Content Types (se.com)  
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Guinan RandyDavis Guinan
‎2020-02-28 07:09 AM

Last Updated: Guinan RobertAndriolo Guinan ‎2022-10-31 05:44 PM

Labels:
  • EcoStruxure Building Operation
1595 Views

How to find out if a controller is capable of Full Duplex

Issue How to determine if a controller is capable of Full Duplex and the Link Speed used. Product Line EcoStruxure Building Operation Environment Building Operation Automation Server Cause How to determine if a controller is capable of Full Duplex. Link Speed can also be determined. Resolution Windows Powershell can be used to determine if a controller is capable of Full Duplex. The Link Speed and MAC address can also be identified. Identify the testing PC's network adapter name that will be used to connect to the controller. Using an Ethernet cable, connect directly to the controller's Ethernet port. Set the PC's IP address to one that is on the same subnet (but not to the exact same IP address of the controller). Using Windows Powershell, enter the following command line: Get-NetAdapter | Select-Object -Property Name, FullDuplex, LinkSpeed | where name -eq 'card name' where 'card name' is the name of the adapter as identified in 1. If the controller is capable of Full Duplex, it will be shown along with its LinkSpeed. Note, Full Duplex and Link Speed can only be achieved by the IT equipment the controller is connected to.
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Sisko DavidChild Sisko
‎2020-03-13 03:47 AM

Last Updated: Guinan RobertAndriolo Guinan ‎2020-03-19 07:19 PM

Labels:
  • EcoStruxure Building Operation
1225 Views

Adding an SP-RDM2 to a Transitioned I/NET Site

Issue An SP-RDM2 will be used to add doors to an I/NET-transitioned site. The readers connected to the SP-RDM2 will need to read Hex Card Number credentials. Product Line Security Expert, TAC INET Environment Security Expert Controller (SP-C) Security Expert Reader Module (SP-RDM2). Cause After transitioning an INET site to Security Expert, you may find it necessary to add one or more new doors. In Security Expert, you add doors to your system by attaching one or more SP-RDM2 modules to the RS-485 bus of an SP-C (up to two doors per SP-RDM2). That is still true for the transitioned system; however, some configuration tasks must be performed to allow the SP-RDM2 to coexist with the SCUs and DCUs that are already communicating with the SP-C.  You will also configure the SP-RDM2 to use the custom Hex Card Number credential you created as part of the INET transition process. Resolution For an SP-RDM2 module to work in conjunction with I/NET modules it must be configured in a specific way. You will need: SP-C firmware 2.08 build 911 or later SP-RDM2 firmware 1.12 build 546 or later Configuring the SP-RDM2: To the existing transitioned I/NET site, add a new Reader Expander for the additional SP-RDM2 reader module. (Note that the last reader expander defined in your existing system may be assigned to a dual-address SCU. If this is the case, make sure the address you assign to the SP-RDM2 is at least two addresses higher than the SCU to avoid address conflict.)  Set the Reader 1 Format and the Reader 2 Format to "Custom Credential". (Note that if the Port 1 Network Type or Port 2 Network Type is set to "Schneider Electric RS485" then this will need to be changed to "Wiegand" to allow you to set the reader format; it is greyed out otherwise. The network type can be set back to "Schneider Electric RS485" afterward.) Set the Port 1 Network Type and Port 2 Network Type according to the type of readers that are connected. In order to correctly convert the card read to the hexadecimal credential format that is programmed for the users, the reader expander must know what card format is being presented. This is done using commands. For the reader on port 1, add the command "R1RawFmt = #" where # is one of the descriptions shown in the table below. Similarly for the reader on port 2, add the command "R2RawFmt = #" where # is one of the descriptions shown in the table below.  If the command is absent, then Wiegand 26 is used as a default. Command Card Type R1RawFmt = Wiegand 26 26-bit Wiegand R1RawFmt = Wiegand 32 32-bit Wiegand R1RawFmt = Wiegand 34 34-bit Wiegand R1RawFmt = Wiegand 66 66-bit Wiegand R1RawFmt = Custom Wiegand Any Wiegand card - parity check is skipped Additionally, the SP-C controller must know which reader expanders to expect on the I/NET network and which reader expanders to expect on the Security Expert module comms network. By default, if the controller command "INET = true" is present in the SP-C, then all modules are considered to be on the I/NET network. Adding an SP-RDM2 to the Security Expert module comms network with no additional commands will result in partial operation but there will be problems. To use a mixture of I/NET modules and Security Expert modules, a command must be added to the programming of all I/NET modules. This command is: "HardwareType = INET" If this command has never been added to any module, and the command "INET = true" is present in the SP-C, then all modules are treated as I/NET. This maintains backward compatibility with existing sites. As soon as the "HardwareType = INET" command has been added to even one module, then it must be added to the programming of all I/NET modules from then on for the site to function as expected. Configuring the SP-RDM Doors to Accept Hex Card Number Credentials Create a new Door Type for reading cards as a Hex Card Number credential and configure it as follows. In the Entry section on the General tab, set the Entry Reading Mode to "Custom". In the Entry Credential Types section, add the "Hex Card Number" credential type. Save the Door Type. Configure each door on the SP-RDM2 to use the new Door Type as follows: In the Setup section on the General tab of the door, set the Door Type to the name of the Door Type you just created in step 1. Save the door.
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Ensign RichardWa Ensign
‎2020-09-14 07:14 PM

Last Updated: Guinan RobertAndriolo Guinan ‎2020-09-14 07:20 PM

Labels:
  • EcoStruxure Security Expert
  • TAC INET
1857 Views

"Property write access denied" error when updating a BACnet trend

Issue Attempts to change the buffer size on an existing BACnet trend result in the following error. Saving Changes Property write access denied '~/BACnet Interface/IP Network_2/VAV01/Application/Trends/RmTmp/Buffer_Size' BACnet Product Line EcoStruxure Building Operation Environment BACnet Trend Building Operation Multi-purpose VAV Building Operation Multi-purpose Controller Cause The buffer size cannot be changed on an enabled trend. Resolution Right-click the trend in question and open the Properties window. Set Log enabled to False. Click OK Open Properties again and change the buffer size to the desired size. Click OK. Open Properties a final time to set the Log to enable back to True. Click OK.
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Administrator DavidFisher Administrator
‎2020-02-25 06:28 AM

on ‎2020-02-25 06:28 AM

Labels:
  • EcoStruxure Building Operation
5541 Views

EBO Network 8000 Interface ASD configuration for Output Override Part 2

Issue How to configure the Network 8000 Interface for ASD overrides Part 2 of 2 Product Line EcoStruxure Building Operation Environment Building Operation Automation Server (All) I/A Network 8000 ASD controllers Cause Requirements and configuration specifics for ASD controller override in the Network 8000 interface Resolution
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Guinan RandyDavis Guinan
‎2020-02-17 08:37 AM

on ‎2020-02-17 08:37 AM

Labels:
  • EcoStruxure Building Operation
  • TAC IA Series
1357 Views

EBO Network 8000 Interface ASD configuration for Output Override Part 1

Issue How to configure the Network 8000 Interface for ASD overrides Part 1 of 2 Product Line EcoStruxure Building Operation Environment Building Operation Automation Server (All) I/A Network 8000 ASD controllers Cause Requirements and configuration specifics for ASD controller override in the Network 8000 interface Resolution
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Guinan RandyDavis Guinan
‎2020-02-14 12:45 PM

Labels:
  • EcoStruxure Building Operation
  • TAC IA Series
1283 Views

Basic steps for TAC Vista to EcoStruxure Building Operation conversion

Issue What are the basic steps when doing a conversion from TAC Vista to EcoStruxure Building Operation (EBO)? Product Line EcoStruxure Building Operation Environment Building Operation Enterprise Server Building Operation Automation Server Premium Vista Server Cause When doing a conversion from TAC Vista to EcoStruxure Building Operation (EBO), a tool called TAC Vista Conversion tool is used to build the EBO database using an export file from TAC Vista. Resolution This video shows a basic conversion of a TAC Vista database to EBO, and the steps that needs to be taken for a successful conversion.
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Janeway Jonas_Brissman Janeway
‎2020-02-12 01:04 AM

Last Updated: Gary Schneider Alumni (Retired) ‎2023-09-13 01:39 AM

Labels:
  • EcoStruxure Building Operation
4207 Views

Exposed properties are unresponsive in Webstation

Issue Updating an exposed property in Webstation doesn't change the exposed attribute. An example is an ellipse having the Fill color attribute exposed, but when updating the exposed property the ellipse does not change color. Right click the graphic in the tree view and choose Properties. Click the Exposed tab Update the property (1) and click OK (2) The fill color of the ellipse does not change This works fine in Workstation. Product Line EcoStruxure Building Operation Environment Building Operation Webstation Cause The Expose object has a property called Public. This value should be True if the exposed property should be visible and editable from Webstation or Workstation. The cause of this problem is that the value is true instead of True. TGML is case sensitive. Workstation is more forgiving, so the color is updated when doing the same procedure in Workstation. Resolution Update the value of the Public property in the Expose object from true to True. If there are many objects to be checked, a search and replace can be undertaken in the Source view.
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Janeway PeterEdvik Janeway
‎2020-03-30 05:52 AM

Last Updated: Sisko DavidChild Sisko ‎2020-03-30 05:53 AM

Labels:
  • EcoStruxure Building Operation
1053 Views

I/NET SCU controller connect to Security Expert SP-C directly

Issue Can the I/NET SCU controller connect to Security Expert SP-C directly instead of being imported from the I/NET system? Product Line Security Expert,TAC INET Environment I/NET SCU 1284 Security Expert Controller Security Expert Cause Required to use New I/NET SCU1284 controllers on a Security Expert site. Resolution It is not possible to configure and commission SCU1284 door controllers without the use I/NET on Security Expert. Explanation of why this is not possible: In I/NET, door controllers i.e SCU1284 are on a subLAN that connects to a 779x host device. In the 779x host device, controller parameters such as its reader type, PIN functionality, LED operation, etc are configured for each door. The configuration parameters for each door controller gets stored in the 779x host device, then the host device’s data is saved to a SAV file (i.e., a backup file of the 779x device). To integrate I/NET door controllers with Security Expert, The subLAN (779x host device ) is then disconnected from the door controllers and connected to an SP-C (the SP-C replaces the 779x host device). The 7798x host device’s SAV file is then downloaded to the SP-C as a binary blob.  The SP-C needs this SAV file to know how to communicate with each door controller and to configure these devices if a cold restart is ever experienced.
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Commander Chris_Asbury Commander
‎2020-02-07 01:55 PM

on ‎2020-02-07 01:55 PM

Labels:
  • EcoStruxure Security Expert
  • TAC INET
1230 Views

Failed to connect to SQL Server [18470] Login failed for user. Reason: The account is disabled

Issue 'Failed to connect to SQL Server (local\TACVISTA). "[18470] Login failed for user 'xxx\xxxxx'. Reason: The account is disabled." message appears when trying to install Vista using another account than the account that is logged on to the server. Product Line TAC Vista Environment TAC Vista 5.1.X SQL installation/connection Cause The TAC Vista installer SQL configuration settings page states 'Select authentication and specify SQL Login or Windows account and password to set how TAC Vista Server will access the SQL server.' This means how TAC Vista will access the SQL server when Vista is running, not during installation. Resolution Ensure that the user running the TAC Vista installer has the correct permissions to install an SQL server (if this is a new database) and configure it. The specified user will be used during runtime, but the launching user during installation. The installing user can then be removed from the SQL server security settings after installation is complete.
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Picard Product_Support
‎2018-09-11 02:53 PM

Labels:
  • TAC Vista
2849 Views
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With achievable small steps, users progress and continually feel satisfaction in task accomplishment.

Usetiful Onboarding Checklist remembers the progress of every user, allowing them to take bite-sized journeys and continue where they left.

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