Welcome to the new Schneider Electric Community

It's your place to connect with experts and peers, get continuous support, and share knowledge.

  • Explore the new navigation for even easier access to your community.
  • Bookmark and use our new, easy-to-remember address (community.se.com).
  • Get ready for more content and an improved experience.

Contact SchneiderCommunity.Support@se.com if you have any questions.

Close
Invite a Co-worker
Send a co-worker an invite to the Exchange portal.Just enter their email address and we’ll connect them to register. After joining, they will belong to the same company.
Send Invite Cancel
84721members
354121posts

ION9000 MV wiring

Metering & Power Quality

Collaborate with multiple experts and discuss various topics about Power Meters and Power Quality. From design & implementation to troubleshooting and more, get support from experts and share your experiences by subscribing to the Schneider Electric Exchange forum today.

Solved
Szymon_Hochół
Commander Commander
Commander
0 Likes
8
1320

ION9000 MV wiring

Hello Experts,

I am looking for some guidance in wiring and configuring ION9000 in MV network.

The system is 6kV DELTA, and the switchboard has 3 voltage transformers. They are connected like this:

Przechwytywanie2.JPG

However, for a DELTA system, ION9000 installation manual does not include such setup. It presents direct connection or using two VTs:

Przechwytywanie.JPG

How would you wire and configure (volts mode, nominal voltage etc.) the meter in such case? 

 

Thank you in advance.

Tags (1)

Accepted Solutions
DanL
Commander Commander
Commander
0 Likes
2
1286

Re: ION9000 MV wiring

nominal voltage that should be configured:
4W-WYE use L-N rms Primary voltage as nominal (which in your case is line-to-earth because that is how the PT primaries are wired)
DELTA use L-L rms Primary voltage

The "Vnominal" setup register in the Factory module in ION9000 default template/framework is linked to the input of many other modules. Right+click on the register and select "Show Connections"

 

 

If you use the DELTA volts mode, and the connection that you described, you could leave VN, VE, V4 not wired at all, but we recommend connecting those terminals as indicated on the drawing. If possible, you should use the fourth wire from PTs (which is ground). That makes the wiring the same as for 4W-WYE, and you can switch over at a later point if you wish to measure line-to-earth voltages (using the meter's VLN output registers in 4WYE mode).

See Answer In Context

Tags (1)
8 Replies 8
Charles_Murison
Picard Picard
Picard
0 Likes
0
1312

Re: ION9000 MV wiring

Hello @Szymon_Hochół ,

 

I will want to confirm with an engineer, will let you know.

 

Regards,

Charles

L4 Prime for Advanced metering and Utilities
Tags (1)
DanL
Commander Commander
Commander
6
1306

Re: ION9000 MV wiring

 

The secondary of the 3PTs are connected together and form a COMMON potential and a 4th wire for voltage.
The PT SECONDARY wiring always determines the volts mode used with ION meters.
 
There are two good options:
Use 4W-WYE volts mode and connect meter's VN measurement terminal to ground (the PT common). The meter's line-to-neutral registers will report the system line-to-ground voltage. Line-to-line voltages will reflect system line-to-line voltages (of course)
OR
Use DELTA volts mode and connect only V1, V2 and V3 measurement terminals (just like a "3 wire direct delta connection" to the PT secondary). Now the meter will only report line-to-line system voltages.
 
Tags (1)
Szymon_Hochół
Commander Commander
Commander
0 Likes
5
1299

Re: ION9000 MV wiring

Thank you @DanL.

 

There is another thing that's not clear for me: choosing volts mode affects the nominal voltage that I should configure. With 4W-WYE, I should use L-N voltage as nominal (which is not there, because there is no N), with 3W-DELTA I should use L-L voltage. This parameter will affect sag/swell detection and harmonics calculations, according to meter's user manual. So woudn't the use of 4W-WYE result in some wrong calculations?

 

And one last thing, If I use the DELTA mode, and connection that you described - can we leave VN, VE, V4 be not wired at all?  Or should we ground it as indicated on the drawing? If these need to be grounded, why not use the fourth wire from PTs (which is ground)? But that makes the wiring the same as for 4W-WYE. Or am I wrong?

 

Thanks

Tags (1)
Charles_Murison
Picard Picard
Picard
0 Likes
0
1292

Re: ION9000 MV wiring

Hello @Szymon_Hochół,

 

It is possible to configure the meter to use VLL information only. Some of the changes are just a setup register (like with sag/swell module) other changes may be linking the LL input rather than LN. If you want to explorer this more I would recommend contacting technical support.

 

Regarding the wiring I would have to defer to Dan.

 

Regards,

Charles

 

L4 Prime for Advanced metering and Utilities
Tags (1)
DanL
Commander Commander
Commander
0 Likes
2
1287

Re: ION9000 MV wiring

nominal voltage that should be configured:
4W-WYE use L-N rms Primary voltage as nominal (which in your case is line-to-earth because that is how the PT primaries are wired)
DELTA use L-L rms Primary voltage

The "Vnominal" setup register in the Factory module in ION9000 default template/framework is linked to the input of many other modules. Right+click on the register and select "Show Connections"

 

 

If you use the DELTA volts mode, and the connection that you described, you could leave VN, VE, V4 not wired at all, but we recommend connecting those terminals as indicated on the drawing. If possible, you should use the fourth wire from PTs (which is ground). That makes the wiring the same as for 4W-WYE, and you can switch over at a later point if you wish to measure line-to-earth voltages (using the meter's VLN output registers in 4WYE mode).

Tags (1)
Szymon_Hochół
Commander Commander
Commander
0 Likes
0
1278

Re: ION9000 MV wiring

Thank you for your support @DanL , @Charles_Murison .

I'll let you know how it works once we get to install the meter.

 

Have a good day!

Tags (1)
conradvr_hexeis
Lieutenant JG
Lieutenant JG
0
1265

Re: ION9000 MV wiring

Hi @DanL,

 

This is similar to an issue Hexeis have a few years ago with the ION7650 used on 3W Delta Networks with Star-Star PT installations.  Over the last 10 years Hexeis has never had an ION installation in Australia that uses the PT arrangement as shown in the installation sheet.  Most of the PT installations are used for Protection relays hence the Star-Star design.

 

Hexeis consulted with Schneider technical support at the time and the information received noted (original case number 1381097).

 

The feedback received at the time was using Delta mode results in measuring voltages across 2 PT windings instead of 1 so this impacts accuracy.  I also recall some chat about the effect of the phase shift caused by the PTs.

 

Since then Hexeis has always used the Volts Mode 4W-WYE and adjusted the Nominal Voltages etc to suit.

 

It would be very useful to have a factory document that displayed the alternative wiring diagrams, provided recommended configurations and noted the impact on accuracy and other metering performance.  Can this please be provided?

 

Regards,

Conrad

Tags (1)
conradvr_hexeis
Lieutenant JG
Lieutenant JG

Re: ION9000 MV wiring

Hi @Szymon_Hochół 

 

With the Sag/Swell module you can also use the Setup Register "Use Vll Always" to use V line to line voltages even when their are line to neutral (earth) voltages available i.e. when using 4W-WYE.

 

Regards,

Conrad

Hexeis 

Tags (1)