SYPM2K problems

[gcc_apc]

Hi All,

I've been running several Symmetra RM-6000 UPSs for about 10 years.  In the last couple of years, a number of their SYPM2K power modules have been failing.  I've had to replace 7 of them so far, and at about $1500 each, that's getting costly.  I'm reluctant to just toss the failed units as e-waste.

I was wondering if I can send these things some place to have them fixed?  Hopefully for less than the full cost of a new one.  And so many of them failing in such a close span of time, I wonder if they have a limited lifetime?  What goes bad in them?

thanks,

gcc

[BillP]

Hi Eugene,

The power modules of our Symmetra units consist of a double online topology. Inside there are rectifiers and inverters that are continuously breaking down the AC power and converting it to DC and then back to AC for a clean output. Aside from that there is the fan and circuit board consisting of capacitors, resistors, etc. As such, there is a life on these modules. The median life for these modules is usually around 7 years.

Have you called into our tech support to verify the cause of why they failed? Generally, tech support can determine what component worn out. Based on your units being 10 years old you are certainly past the life expectancy for those modules if they are the originals. If you provide me the serial numbers of these modules I can look up their age.

The only certified repair facility used for our products is CoastTec and unfortunately at this point in time they do not repair Symmetra parts.

-David

[gcc_apc]

Hi David,

Thanks for youre reply and explanation.  I knew about the full active nature of these power modules, so I figured they must be pretty sophisitcated.  The price must reflect that as well.

Here are the S/Ns of my failed units:

ED0053000849

ED0137000806

ED0138000680

FD0115000609

QD0243350241

QD0411350006

QD0844170027

Is it possible to get these things repaired?

Since they are so old and out of warranty, will tech support hrlp me diagnose their problems?

If what you say is true, that they only last about 7 years on average, something is worn out, and it would be nice to be able to replace that, instead of throwing the whole thing away.

thanks for any information you can provide,

Eugene

[BillP]

Thanks for the serial numbers Eugene. It does look like most of these are over 10 years old. Some are 12 years old. There is one in there that is 7 years old. I wish I could tell you that you can get them repaired, but you cannot. For our single phase products we do not open up the modules to replace individual components. All single phase products are only replaceable at the modular level.

Regardless of the age and warranty status, phone tech support is always a free option for you. Keep in mind that we generally do not like reseating failing modules. So if one is faulting I would call in before removing it to see if the issue is with the module or the unit itself.

We do offer a TradeUPS program either directly through us or a reseller where you can purchase a new unit at a discounted price by giving us your old unit for recycle. The shipment of the old unit back to us is covered by us through this program. If this is something you would be interested in I could have your sales account rep reach out to you to discuss this option. You may also want to look at adding extended warranties to the units which can also be purchased at a discounted price when adding them to the TradeUPS program.

[gcc_apc]

Hi David,

That TradeUPS sounds interesting.  Who do I contact about that?

Eugene

[Terry_Kennedy_apc]

I have had a couple fail in a Symmetra from 2001. I just buy replacements on eBay for a hundred bucks or so (make sure you avoid the "As-is" or "For parts or repair" ones). Over time, every component of my Symmetra except for the chassis and the external stepdown transformer has been replaced.

One thing I suggest is to look for modules that have the larger thumbscrews as opposed to the tiny flat head screws - the thumbscrew modules are newer. I'm not sure when the design switched, but I'd guess 2004 or so. Watch out for "stock photo" listings, though - what you see may not be what you get. It may be useful to confirm the serial number with the seller. Also, newer power modules don't make the "swarm of angry bees" sound when there is more than one power module in the chassis, but all power modules need to be of the newer style for this to work.

The only thing I'll do inside the power modules (and be aware that this is not supported or recommended by APC) is to change the fans when they wear out - they generally start getting noisy. If you aren't comfortable with tightly-packed gadgets with stored high voltage, I'd suggest staying out of the power module innards.

One important thing to note (which is probably one of the reasons why David doesn't recommend re-seating faulty modules) is that everything inside the Symmetra is on one single communication bus, so if you insert a bad module, you can get all sort of scary front panel alarms and alerts from the network management card claiming that lots of parts have suddenly failed.

[gcc_apc]

Terry,

Thanks for your inputs.

I've checked the fans inside the failed power modules, but they weren't the problem.  I see traces of what appear to be smoke deposits, but I can't really tell where they're coming from.

Next week, I'll try to get some raw data out of them, and maybe tech support can help interpret them.

Eugene

[BillP]

Hi Eugene,

I forwarded this info to the account rep in charge of NASA. They will be reaching out to you shortly to get more info from you and go over available options.

Thanks. 

[Terry_Kennedy_apc]

I didn't mean to imply that I thought your problems might be due to fans. I was trying to say "I agree - I don't open them up and try to repair anything except when I know it is working but has noisy fans".

The soot-like deposits are often room air contaminants that get into the units via the fan airflow, and then build up on surfaces that are in the path of that airflow. There are generally 3 types of gunk that get into equipment with fans - the soot-like deposits, "spanish moss" type dustball streamers, and loose dust.

[gcc_apc · Accepted solution]

Hi Terry,

Thanks for the explanations.

I thought of soot because I had a step down transformer that burned through one of its 10 gauge wires, and it left soot all over the inside of the case.  It looked very similar to the deposits inside the PMs, only much more dense.

At this point, I have no more time to spend on trying to figure out the 7 bad power modules, or the 2 bad IMs, or the bad RM-6000 chassis that I've accumulated, and probably will just be disposing of them.

Eugene