Metering & Power Quality
Schneider Electric support forum about Power Meters (ION, PowerTag, PowerLogic) and Power Quality from design, implementation to troubleshooting and more.
Posted: 2014-03-26 03:02 PM . Last Modified: 2020-04-22 01:51 AM
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Hi, I wanted to check if we are working on Designer templates of PM/EM series meters? Currently we have to access these meters through ION Setup. The typical procedure which I am following is:
1. Change the COM port selected to connect the site and then disable the site
2. Close Management Console
3. Go to ION Setup to configure the device
4. Make desired changes/configurations and close ION Setup
5. Restart Management Console
6. Change COM port back to the one it was and check if the changes made in ION Setup are reflecting in Vista
In the current project I have a PM850 which is refusing to connect to ION Setup. I have tried numerous times to connect through ION Setup but it keeps showing "No response" or "Device not responding". Strange part is that everything (real time data in Vista and data logging through VIP) is working fine in PME 7.0.1. I have latest ION Setup and firmware version of PM850. Meter is connected through MOXA Ethernet converter. Few times when the meter did connect through ION Setup I made changes in "On-board alarms" and it showed that they were successfully sent to the meter. However, when I went back to PME it did not show the changes. Finally I had to make changes from meter display.
If we could open these meters also in Designer all this could be avoided. Not sure if its possible but its worth trying . If not then is there any other easier way to do it? Please advise.
Also, please advise if we need to stop any ION Services before accessing meter through ION Setup.
Thanks
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Hi Atul
Only ION devices are supported in Designer. The upcoming PM8000 as a result will be configurable there, as it is an ION device. For modbus device types, you will need to use ION Setup or the front panel to configure them.
In your procedure, you should not worry about shutting down the Management Console - it does not hold any ports active. If the site displays as "Disconnected", then it should be available for ION Setup to configure. Is it possible the TCP port configured for ION Setup is the right one for the MOXA box? If yes, I would suggest a tech support case - they will be able to get you going.
Tom
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Hi Atul
Only ION devices are supported in Designer. The upcoming PM8000 as a result will be configurable there, as it is an ION device. For modbus device types, you will need to use ION Setup or the front panel to configure them.
In your procedure, you should not worry about shutting down the Management Console - it does not hold any ports active. If the site displays as "Disconnected", then it should be available for ION Setup to configure. Is it possible the TCP port configured for ION Setup is the right one for the MOXA box? If yes, I would suggest a tech support case - they will be able to get you going.
Tom
Posted: 2014-03-26 10:30 PM
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Thanks Tom, I have logged a case with Tech support.
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Hi Atul,
The steps you mentioned about changing the com port seem a little extreme to me. Have you tried disconnecting the site before disabling?
One thing you could check inside ION Setup is the timing settings for the site.
Posted: 2014-03-27 09:55 AM
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Using ION Setup for serially connected with a deployed ION/SPM/PME system is a bit tricky. Not to say it doesn't work, just that most people won't get it the first time. The issue is ownership of that serial comms connection. ION Setup only connects when it is open and configured. ION/SPM/PME however, will remain connected to a serial device once connected via services. Simply shutting down Management console has no effect on this. You must disconnect the Site that services the serial daisy chain. This is true for Ethergate connections to downstream serial devices. Not sure about devices downstream from EGX devices since these handle the serial packet differently. Generally ION devices will use Ethergate on a 7550/7650 and CM/PM devices work better with EGX gateways. ION meters don't work well with EGX devices.
Currently, most use both ION Setup and Designer to configure a system. Certain things, like saving a DCF or changing demand intervals are much easier in ION Setup. Other things can be done in either from basic configuration to advanced programming.
However, as mentioned before, you can only configure CM, PM, EM, etc. using ION Setup since they are not "ION Technology"
There is much that needs to be done to update Designer and integrate the two tools, but this is where we are at the moment.
KK
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If you disconnect the site (for devices through a gateway site) or disconnect the device (for direct ethernet devices) then PME will close the TCP/IP connection. This is done in Management Console by right clicking on the gateway site/device and selecting the disconnect menu item. This will free the port making it available for IONSetup to connect (ie PME will stop talking to the device). When done with IONSetup, close the connection in IONSetup and reverse the process in Management Console by selecting the connect menu item. Exiting the IONSetup application will guarantee that it will close its connection but there may be other methods - I am not that familiar with IONSetup.
This process is only required when using a gateway that only has a single TCP port to serial port mapping allowed (ethergate on board the ION devices and some modbus gateways). The EGX gateways allow multiple connections to the serial devices so generally you do not need to do this.
This is also the same process when dealing with directly connected serial port devices on the PME server as this also require exclusive use of the serial port to communicate with the devices.
Generally for basic configuration for all device types IONSetup will likely be a better option. For advanced programming of ION devices (changing the structure of the ION module framework for instance) then Designer is the solution. For advanced programmed of non-ION devices IONSetup is still the only option.
Posted: 2014-03-28 09:04 AM
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Thank you all for the inputs. It gave me a better understanding of ION Setup. Unfortunately we haven't made any progress in last two days. Now the case is being escalated to next level of tech support. Could be a minor tweaking which needs to be done but somehow we are not able to catch it. Playing hide and seek.
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Hi Atul,
I tried looking at the file(s) you provided but I'm no PME expert so I'll pass those files to Tech Support if they can use it.
Looking at the information about the Moxa converted, I am assuming it is a standard Ethernet to Serial converter. I'm assuming from an ION Setup perspective, you are inserting an Ethernet gateway site of some form with a particular IP Address and IP Port. May I inquire what IP Port you having configured for this gateway site? Depending on the port number, ION Setup will do different things. If the IP Port is port 501 or 502, it will send Modbus TCP packets to the gateway which it assumes the gateway/device supports. Any other IP ports will send encapsulated Modbus RTU packets (which is probably preferable in this case if it also works with ION devices in the same mode).
Also, most converters of this type will only support a singular IP connection to that port (otherwise if it supported multiple connections, there would have to be some type of packet tracking on the serial side in order for it to know which master connection to send the response through).
Another possible source of problems is the serial side of things when the PM850 responds. Most serial-ethernet converters either have a fixed maximum buffer size (where if the serial buffer receives N bytes, it will then transmit those bytes over Ethernet back) and/or a timeout (after N ms of inactivity, it will send whatever it has received back as a response). I would recommend a buffer size of at least 300 bytes (otherwise ION Setup might not recognize the response as it will be broken up over multiple TCP packets) and a timeout of at least 10 byte times depending on the serial baud rate.
If you are using the Moxa converters back to back (thus it is a serial connection to both the PC and the slave devices), then PME will have to be disconnected as Karl indicated as typically only one process may have access to a serial port (in this case PME would grab hold of it the moment the PC services are loaded).
My suspicion here is that the Moxa converter only supports a single IP connection to that IP Addr/Port and is refusing the ION Setup one subsequently since PME is connecting almost immediately. Disconnect via the Managment console its connection prior to attempting to connect using ION Setup.
Posted: 2014-03-31 10:32 AM
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Hi Robert,
Thanks for looking into it.
Both the meters have Device ID “1” and “2”. They are serially looped through RS485 cable and then the cable is coming to MOXA converter (Serial to Ethernet converter NPORT 5130 - http://www.moxa.com/product/NPort_5130.htm) through a nine pin connector. MOXA converter has an IP assigned to it and has been mapped to a COM port. e.g. COM2 with 9600 Baud Rate and 8E1, RTS/CTS enabled setting. From other end of converter CAT6 cable runs to the PC on which PME is installed.
In PME we have created a “Direct Site” which connects to same COM port i.e. COM2 with same communication settings. Then we added 2 Serial Devices (both the meters) on this “Direct site” with Device IDs “1” and “2”. PM850 has ID “1” and EM6436 has ID “2”. Before connecting through ION Setup we always disconnect the Site from PME Management Console and then try it but it still does not connect. Today I installed ION Setup on a different PC in same network and tried to connect to PM850. This new PC did not have PME and I stopped all PME/ION services on the one which was being used earlier. Still it kept saying “No response”. I have also tried connecting my laptop directly to the converter (it also does not have PME) and still got “No response”.
Another point which I wanted to clarify is if IONSetup is compatible with Win 7? It says it is in its manual but after installing on Win 7 Professional I always get the attached message saying, “This program might not have installed correctly”.
One more thing which I noticed on the customers’ network is that on both their PCs when I installed MOXA config utility, it showed most of 1 to 16 no. ports as “In Use”? Please check attached image. Is it normal? They only have a printer attached through network and no other device.
Thanks for your help.
Regards,
Atul Kashyap
PMI Associates
Mob: 09310037098
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It sounds like you are using a pair of these Moxa converters then, essentially bridging a serial connection between two points via Ethernet (so from ION Setup and PME's perspective, it is connecting via a serial comm port but it is effectively PC <-> RS-232 <-> Ethernet <=> Ethernet -> RS-485 <-> PM850).
I don't know why com ports 9 thru 16 are in use. One thing I did notice is that your serial settings are not the ION Setup default (which is 8N1 not 8E1). Make sure you adjust that on the serial settings when you define the site.
As for the Windows 7 error, I haven't seen that particular error on any of my Windows 7 installs. Are you installing as an Administrator (or a user with admin rights)? The latest version of ION Setup now installs files in two locations in response to not requiring Admin rights to actually run the software (but still needs admin rights to install it).
If you still can't resolve this, I would suggest getting some type of network analyzer utility like WireShark (they have a trial version) which will allow you to capture TCP packets and save it to a file so we could see what is being sent between the Moxa converters and if the PM850 is responding.
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Sounds like this MOXA uses a Ethernet to serial port mapping. When a program sends a message to Com X, this program will see this message and send a TCP/IP message to the gateway that will convert this to an RS-485 serial message to send to the devices. A common area of error with this setup is the timing and DTR and flow control settings. Each system will be different but consider increasing the timeouts and trying different options for the DTR and flow control settings.
Posted: 2014-04-20 10:36 PM
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Hi, we tried adjusting all the settings in different ways but nothing worked. So, finally we are going to replace MOXA converter with EGX. Thanks everyone for your inputs.
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