H15 Wiring OK light

[Anonymous user]

Well, just received my H15. Unfortunately, the Wiring OK light is not lit. I plugged the unit into outlets on different circuits in my house - no luck getting the light to come on.

I took the unit over to my neighbors house to try it - same thing, no light.

When I use the dim settings, I see that all lights come on in order to set the dim preference. The Wiring OK light does come on when setting the dim level, so the light must be good. When I exit the dim setting, the light goes back off again. Arg..

Any thoughts?

P.S. Ground and polarity have previously checked out fine. Our electrician told me on the phone that an overloaded neutral is not common with houses 17 years old.

Message was edited by: apcme

[Anonymous user]

Do you have any idea on when a decision will be made?

[Erasmus_apc]

Not at this time, I will update further when I am updated.

[Erasmus_apc]

If there is an update I will post if appropriate. No problem.

[Anonymous user]

I've got the exact same problem. I ordered my unit from Vann's as well, just got it today (Mar12). Can you help me? Model H15BLK SN 5Z1006T50273 Version 0.2.D

[Anonymous user]

Well, just received my H15. Unfortunately, the Wiring OK light is not lit. I plugged the unit into outlets on different circuits in my house - no luck getting the light to come on.

I took the unit over to my neighbors house to try it - same thing, no light.

When I use the dim settings, I see that all lights come on in order to set the dim preference. The Wiring OK light does come on when setting the dim level, so the light must be good. When I exit the dim setting, the light goes back off again. Arg..

Any thoughts?

P.S. Ground and polarity have previously checked out fine. Our electrician told me on the phone that an overloaded neutral is not common with houses 17 years old.

Message was edited by: apcme

[Anonymous user]

Thanks. I called Vanns and I will be sending this second unit back to them. I'll wait until you update us like you said when the new units are without the problem.

Message was edited by: Cardinals

[Erasmus_apc]

"Regardless, the 5-year warranty is of course maintained since that is the stated factory warranty through APC." The warranty being 5 years is all I can %100 confirm.

[Erasmus_apc]

The unit, functionally, is fine. I don't know how else to word this but we are "currently investigating" a sudden spurt of H15 units that are not illuminating their "Wiring OK" LEDs. The number has been quite small so far but in my position within APC I've had enough exposure to units of this kind to see some of the cases that have cropped up. Again, we have replicated this but have also verified that the units do protect against surges, go to battery, etc., so this appears to be cosmetic only. Can I have your serial number on the unit? Also, what company did you purchase this from directly?

[Anonymous user]

Ok. Here it is: 5Z1006T23657

I understand that functionality is good, but I do want the light to work as intended. It would be a good indicator of house wiring condition. I will return this current unit as planned and hope the replacement doesn't have this problem.

Would you keep me updated on this issue through this thread? I will update you on the light of the replacement unit when it arrives.

Thank you again!

[Anonymous user]

Thank you very much for this information.

The unit was purchased at Vanns. They shipped a replacement unit to me today and I should receive it in 2 weeks. Hope the light works on that one. I was planning to hold on to this one until the new unit arrives. Given this information, do you still want the serial number? If so, is it ok to post here?

Vanns was out of stock until just recently. Do you have any idea if this problem is affecting particular production runs? I'm just asking since they just shipped me a replacement unit and I'm wondering if that one will have this problem as well.

[Erasmus_apc]

You can post the serial number here. There's no personal information given by a serial number and it isn't intelligible beyond just the year of mfg. it gives.

We have seen this cosmetic issue on both a few 2009 units, and a 2010 unit, so it is possible a replacement will have the issue, especially since we have only very recently started seeing these incidents and just started our investigation. As I said earlier the unit will work as designed, the LED coming on is the only issue.

[Anonymous user]

Erasmus, thanks for the reply and for checking on this for us. If our second unit has the same led issue, is there someone at APC that I can contact directly? I forgot to mention previously that I called the customer support number at the end of the H15 manual, twice last week, and neither rep knew of the problem. I'm very glad that you were aware of this problem and responded. 🙂 I imagine that there will only be a small window to report a problem and request a refund from Vanns, but as I said I'd prefer to keep the unit subject to replacement that I mentioned earlier.

[Anonymous user]

My version is 0.2.D also and my replacement unit from Vanns will be here on Wednesday (3/17). If that one doesn't work I'll return that one too.

Not sure what I'll do from there. I may have to go with a unit from a different manufacturer. Can APC say with certainty that the voltage regulation, surge protection, and filtering are all working as designed? What if someone that has a defective led also has a wiring problem and experiences a surge? Will the unit warranty and protected equipment warranty be valid without a hassle? Not trying to give you a hard time. Just trying to better understand what would happen if there is a problem with one of these effected H15 units.

Erasmus, would it be acceptable to APC if effected H15 customers (that desire this solution) temporarily kept these units with the faulty led with the understanding that APC will replace them with a brand new (not used, reconditioned, refurbished, repaired, etc.) unit when the problem is figured out and fixed? The new unit would need to be shipped to us at the expense of APC, and include a return shipping label for the defective unit. Also, the five year warranty would need to reset when the new unit arrived. This would benefit APC in that customers that have a need for the unit now wouldn't need to buy a unit from a different manufacturer. It would also say a lot about how APC values its customers and how APC backs its products that have a fault right out of the box.

[Erasmus_apc]

Thank you for the additional info. I am not the person to confirm/deny a procedure for replacement like that, but since we know of the issue and have seen that it is, of course, not customer fault or based on "incompatible devices", I would say that it is very likely we would honor replacements for these affected units with "truly new" (new as you have defined) replacements. I will have to get more info on this. In the meantime, the unit is safe to use. I have personally looked inside of an affected unit and there is no damage or loose connections. Also, all our units have a measure of "burn in" and testing before being boxed (otherwise they are discarded), and in addition to the testing we have done to make sure this is only a cosmetic LED issue, I can say for sure the units are no less safe than H15's that are not having the LED issue.

[Erasmus_apc]

Well, you can PM me here in the forums (using the toolbar at the top of the forum GUI), or post the reply with the new information here. I have made the global tech. support leader for the A/V products aware of this forum post and he and I were the ones to identify the issue and pass it up to engineering, so believe me we're all over it. However, we aren't the actual engineers so until the issue is positively identified and an ECO (engineering change order) is placed to fix the issue in manufacturing, there is no guarantee we could even get a "perfect" unit out as a replacement. In the rare times when these sorts of things pop up we verify that anything past xyz serial number range is being mfgd. with the ECO in place and the changes being applied and then address RMA's as best we can using that stock.

General customer support would not know of the issue for a number of reasons but a few posters here, including myself, are in a "higher position" and are much more capable of spotting repeat issues and odd problems. I can't speak for resellers or their ability to send specific serial ranges for replacements, but regardless of whether Vanns will honor returns/refunds, as the mfg. APC will honor all claims of genuine unit failures or defects and send replacements whenever needed, and we can at least make multiple attempts at getting the "fixed" units out the door.

[Anonymous user]

Erasmus, I received the replacement unit. Same exact problem. The serial number is 5Z1006T24152. Version: 0.2.D
I will PM you my personal information.

If APC will guarantee that they will replace the defective unit with a brand new production unit that functions correctly (when available), pay for shipping of the brand new unit and unit being returned, and provide the 5 year warranty on the new unit upon delivery, I will keep one of the units, for now, with the non functioning wiring OK indicator until the new unit is available.

Please advise.
Thank you!

[Anonymous user]

How would shipping work under the warranty? Would the customer need to pay for shipping the defective unit to APC? How about return shipping costs?

Would the returned unit be subject to repair (if it can be repaired) as opposed to a new production replacement?

These are brand new units with a factory defect. Given this, I sincerely hope APC will agree to my reasonable requests. Please keep us posted. For now, I will return 1 unit to Vanns (the return window is nearly up). I should have 7 days or so on returning the second unit. Any idea when a decision will be made?

[Erasmus_apc]

The replacement part of it should not be a problem, but again, I am still in the process of confirming what will be done so I cannot confirm/deny this part of solution. Regardless, the 5-year warranty is of course maintained since that is the stated factory warranty through APC.

[Erasmus_apc]

Under normal factory warranty, if the failure occurs within 30 days of the unit being purchased/installed then we will pay for shipping both ways for the RMA and the replacement unit will be "truly" new. "Installed" means we will honor an install date after the purchase instead as long as it's not stored for a period of time that negatively impacts unit components or in an unsupported storage environment, i.e. many months in a damp, super-hot room. It sounds like these failures are being observed well within the 30 day window so that part is simple; for all of these we would do a full replacement with a new unit being sent to you and we would pay for shipping both ways. For those that are not observed within 30 days (not that I have heard of any that worked initially and then failed), for H15's we determine to be affected by this issue specifically we can do an RMA and pay for the shipping to the customer, but the return shipping policy and whether or not the unit is "truly" new are yet to be determined.

I see no reason why we would deviate from the above policy for "30-day failures" or why we won't extend that same policy to any unit affected by this specific issue, but I am working on confirming all of the above and also investigating any additional ways we can satisfy our customers who are affected by this issue so that when it is time to announce the official plan of action: a) there is no confusion and b) the plan of action is the absolute best we can offer.

Again, at this time the only part that I can confirm is that the warranty will be 5 years, just as it is now.

[Erasmus_apc]

Hi All,

Just confirmed that we will be fully replacing H15/H15BLK units with this issue with brand new units in any case, regardless of purchase/install date. APC will also be paying for shipping both ways, to and from the customer, again, regardless of purchase/install date for customers affected by this issue. So, even though this issue has caused a little bit of concern/inconvenience, we'll be making sure no more inconvenience has to be faced :).

On another related note, we've found the root cause of the issue (internal, I can't discuss it but as we determined before it is not a "functional" issue) and after a little bit of further QA to verify perfect functionality, we will begin the process of addressing the issue at the manufacturing level so we can have good stock to ship out. Odd that this happened after years of making working H15s. I will update next when we are ready to start the replacement process.

[Anonymous user]

Thanks Erasmus. I was out of town - sorry for the delay in responding.

Since the long term reliability of the correction/change to the unit is unknown, can the 5 year warranty be reset to the date the new unit arrives at the customer?

[Anonymous user]

I have the same problem with mine (H15 BLK) which arrived from Vanns on March 22. I called APC Tech Support first and they didn't know anything about it. I called Vanns next and they also didn't know so they gave me a return shipping label and I shipped it back to them that same day of March 22. Vanns then shipped me another new one which arrived today, April 2. It has the same problem, the Wiring OK light will not light up. The wiring in my house is perfect.

Erasmus, will I need to send this one back too? Vanns never e-mailed or called me saying, "sorry about the first one, this new one is fine." This was my first time ordering from them and I heard good things, but now I'm just a little ticked and will probably buy it from another company if necessary.

Thanks.

[Erasmus_apc]

Hi there,

apcme) Yes we will make sure the 5-year warranty starts with the new unit.

Cardinals) I can't speak for Vann's replacement policy, however to their credit they have most likely not been made aware of the issue and the fixes we are implementing so they likely thought the first was a fluke. Like I said we are in the process of addressing the issue in mfg. so that we can roll out fixed units to sales and RMA stock. We will update this forum when that process is in full swing and we can give an actual ETA.

[Anonymous user]

It is my understanding that customers (like myself) will keep the H15 for now, and APC will fully handle the replacement/shipping as soon as new units without this problem are available. Is this correct Erasmus? Is there any way to get something more formal to customers other than this thread? I think you work for APC, but I don't really know for sure. 🙂

This is my first experience with Vanns too. Great customer service and I had no problem with the first return. No cost to me for return shipping either. Good unit price too. I did let them know of this thread and the H15 problem. Hope they pull their remaining inventory to keep other customers from being inconvenienced. Guess they don't want to pull their inventory until confirmation of a problem. They sent me a return shipping label for the second unit too, but if my understanding (see above) is correct, I'll keep the defective unit for now.

Even though there is currently a problem with the H15, APC seems to be fully standing behind their product. Erasmus said that affected H15 units will be replaced with new units, they will pay for shipping both ways, and reset the 5 year warranty. Sounds like they know how to take care of their customers. 🙂

[Erasmus_apc]

I believe I covered that in a previous post. Customers affected by this issue will receive a brand new (not refurb) unit when we have "good" stock, shipping will be paid both ways by APC, and the 5 year warranty will be maintained and refreshed for the replacement unit. Basically we are handling all sides of the replacement so that our customers are not inconvenienced or worried further. Also, just a repeat FYI, the units are functionally fine and no less capable of protecting the load equipment than working units, making this a "cosmetic only" issue.

I do work for APC, I am a Senior Single Phase Support Engineer and I have a direct path of communication to both the Global Support leaders and indirectly to the engineers responsible for fixing the issue. In short, what I say is and will be APC's opinion and policy for this situation.

FYI I have been promoted off the current team I am on and will stop administering/posting on these forums around April 20th. I will continue to look at this particular thread for the sake of making sure communication to our customers, and communication from our customers to our support staff, remains smooth. After April 20th "buzz" (another APC employee) will be the primary support contact for this forum thread.

[Anonymous user]

Erasmus, thanks for the reassurance and thanks for your continued monitoring of this thread as well. Best of luck with your promotion too. I have another H15 question, but since it is unrelated to the wiring light I'll start another thread.

[Anonymous user]

Yes, thanks Erasmus. I will not be sending this one back to Vanns after all. I'll just get a replacement from APC when the indicator light problem is fixed. I called APC tech support today and they said to call back in about a month.

Thanks again for your help.

[Anonymous user]

It appears that the H15 I received today has the wiring OK light problem as well. I am curious as to what will be the manner of notice regarding when APC will replace the units with this problem?

[BillP]

You mean when will APC be replacing them? There hasn't been official word from engineering yet, but I'll definitely let you know when replacements are ready. In the meantime, I'd like to reiterate what Erasmus said - the unit is still functional, it's just that this LED isn't working properly.

[Anonymous user]

Yes, my question was regarding the priority and/or schedule for replacing the units with the wiring OK light problem. We are now into the third month since the problem was reported here. Are there no new units available that do not have the wiring OK light problem?

Message was edited by: bborzell

[voidstar_apc]

>
Reworked new units may be acceptable to some customers, but it is not to me.
>

While I don't know whether the new H15s will be reworked, I'd point out that rework is normal in new production units from the factory. The production lines aren't perfect and yields defective units. The factories have test fixtures that check every circuit on the boards to catch those defects. Units that fail the factory tests are then reworked by skilled technicians. And when engineering makes changes to the products, those changes can also necessitate rework. After being reworked, the products go back through testing.

[BillP]

Just registered to respond to this as well.

Two weeks I unboxed my new H15, which due to work circumstances, had sat unopened since I bought it 40 days prior. Plugged it in and found my Wiring OK light not working. I immediately confirmed the LED itself was fine through the dimming function, then went about trying to figure why my home wiring was bad. After tearing out my hair for nearly a hour double checking all the wiring, several outlets, etc. and still not being able to figure out what was wrong, I came online and Googled "H15 Wiring OK light not working". Bingo, first hit was this helpful forum.

While not pleased the issue, I was happy to find some recognition of the problem here and that there would be some assistance in the near future. I made a note to call customer service the next morning to add my name to the queue, however was greeted with a 'we don't know of any issues with the H15'. I then spent a good deal of time walking the tech through the issue, waiting for his confirmation that there was an issue, then again walking him through every issue related to the replacement, the RMA, the shipment being paid both ways, etc. Every single point that was addressed in those few posts from the APC rep here had to be discussed and agreed upon. After agreeing to all those listed terms, the final thing he said before closing was 'let me check one more thing ... well we are not showing any in stock and we have no idea when we will get you a replacement'.

He was adamant to say they found the issue and that the units functioned for protection just fine except for the Wiring OK light. He said that LED had been set to light on the opposite condition so that if it lit up, it meant there was a problem. Several times he asked if I was willing to accept the unit knowing it was functioning fine from a protection standpoint, or if I really wished, I could go ahead and request a replacement. After looking at my phone clock and realizing I had just spent 53 minutes walking him through the topic that should have been known within APC, I said I wanted a new unit that worked as designed. If these flaws had slipped through QC, what else had made it through ?

Within minutes I got my email confirmation of the RMA request but the cust svc rep was quite honest saying he had no clue how long that could take. He was friendly and professional throughout, however it was clear that these issues had not been shared within APC and it was really up to me as the customer to be the informed one and to provide all the needed input to walk this through and to make sure I got on the RMA list.

I would suggest others 'waiting' for APC to come back here saying new units are ready to ship should actually take the lead and make the call so they can get a firm RMA set up and be put on the replacement list. Good luck to all.

SA

[Anonymous user]

I just called the number that Buzz gave. When you get someone to pick up, ask for the ABS Team to make sure you are speaking to someone in the correct department. They will give you a case reference number and contact you when units with a correctly functioning wiring LED are available.

In my opinion, APC is being very good to their customers who purchased affected H15 units. Per APC - until corrected units are available, we can continue to use the H15 with the defective LED and continue to receive protection to plugged in equipment. APC will pay for shipping both ways, and will reset the 5 year warranty on the replacement unit. Given that sometimes problems occur with products, what more can a customer ask? APC is standing behind their product and customers.

Edit: Just received an email from APC with the RMA number.

Message was edited by: apcme

[Anonymous user]

Buzz, would you please clarify this for us. The arrangement with Don was that customers would be getting new production run units (if you look back far enough in this thread.) Reworked new units may be acceptable to some customers, but it is not to me. I'd rather patiently (within reason) wait for new production units as previously agreed. Would you please take care of this for me? Ladi is the rep handling this for me. Please advise. Robert V.

[Anonymous user]

Here is an excerpt of the previous post from Don that I referenced:

Re: H15 Wiring OK light
Posted: Apr 5, 2010 12:42 PM in response to: apcme in response to: apcme

Customers affected by this issue will receive a brand new (not refurb) unit when we have "good" stock, shipping will be paid both ways by APC, and the 5 year warranty will be maintained and refreshed for the replacement unit.

[BillP]

Sorry for not providing an update sooner. We are addressing the issue and orders will be fulfilled very soon. If you haven't already, please contact tech support (800-890-4272) to setup an RMA for a replacement unit. Thanks!

Edit: I apologize for the confusion and hassle you encountered. I've reiterated to our tech support engineers what the issue is and precisely how to handle the situation. Please keep in mind that, while we are conscious of the known issue, we would still like to verify that customers have checked for the most obvious concerns first, as you had. Wiring issues can be a safety hazard and are worth looking into, even if it simply involves plugging the unit in somewhere else to confirm the problem isn't with the wiring.

[BillP]

Update from my first post yesterday. I got a voicemail saying they had shipped a replacement H15 for the RMA, but then discovered the one they sent would have the same problem. When we got back in direct contact, the rep said they discovered their error once the replacement was shipped, and that in all likelihood it was a silver one anyway instead of the H15BLK as I have. He spent about 15 mins to set up another RMA for that erroneous unit and said they would send out another replacement unit which would correct the problem and would email return shipping labels for the two bad units.

I asked did this mean they now have new, properly working units in stock or how much longer until they came into stock. He said 'well we're fixing units for people such as you (RMAs) to get you done first before we start on the others' (new production). I asked does this mean the replacements are refurbs, but he said 'no, they are new units'. From this, I'm wondering if they aren't sitting on stock of known bad units and are just re-working them one by one to cover the existing RMA's and work off that inventory before the production line starts turning out the properly working units. I guess technically it wouldn't be a refurb if those units have never been sold/shipped and are just re-worked NIB units off their shelves. Oh well, back to waiting in the wings.

Message was edited by: allenst65 May 26 9PM PST

First replacement arrived today, this one apparently the known bad replacement which I was told was likely a silver one. Was surprised to see a box for a H15BLK, so I went ahead and opened it to doublecheck. Sure enough, a dinged up and scratched silver unit that was a refurb, no cables or docs included. The QA sticker taped on the unit was from Sept 09. If I understand the serial number and how the date code is figured, the unit itself was an 06 model.

[Anonymous user · Accepted solution]

Regardless, this is what was agreed to: "Customers affected by this issue will receive a brand new (not refurb) unit when we have "good" stock". I request that APC to honor this commitment to me.