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Considering UPS/power condition for my whole house

APC UPS for Home and Office Forum

Schneider Electric support forum for our APC offers including Home Office UPS, Surge Protectors, UTS, software and services and associated products designed to share knowledge, installation, and configuration.

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BillP
Administrator Administrator
Administrator
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306

Considering UPS/power condition for my whole house

This question was originally posted by Mike on APC forums on 3/4/2008


Hey all,

I live in an area that seems to blow lightblubs like bubbles popping in the bathtup, and those little halogens start to get expensive rather quickly!

So, in the spirit of longevity for both my bulbs, electronics, and everything else I'm considering a UPS/power conditioning system for my house.

I currently have 100 AMP service and use as much as 80 kWh/day, as low as 40 and seems to average about 55. If I went with the UPS option, I'd want to base it on 55 kWh/day - and require no more than 10 minutes backup time.

Form this information I have NO idea how to "size" the appropriate equipment and what the relative cost for such a system would be. This is a dip into the unknown... as is my next comment.

I'm also considering adding some alternative power to my residence, either with a Windmill or Solar panel(s) - possibly both over time. I'd like the system installed to allow for the expandability of such power sources without having to reinvent the wheel when it happens. I'm also not opposed to this being a 'homegrown' solution if my plans don't fall within any pre-packaged option available.

Thanks for your attnetion, thoughts and any assistance you can provide 🙂

[aidanenos@rogers.com]


Accepted Solutions
slowpoke_apc
Crewman
Crewman
0 Likes
0
306

Re: Considering UPS/power condition for my whole house

This was originally posted on APC forums on 4/9/2008


I have been considering a similar option using a mix of grid pwr
and solar. I need to figure how to install a UPS unit along with
grid and solar mix. I'd need 30kwh average/day at max - less than
20kwh/day normal ops. I'm in talks with a rep from SPP and
a private contractor @TT. I'll post updated info and their suggestions
when I get a better understanding of the project. APC Back UPS
would be an integral part of overall system. Best of luck.
slowpoke7@gmail.com

See Answer In Context

Louie_apc
Crewman
Crewman
0 Likes
0
306

Re: Considering UPS/power condition for my whole house

This was originally posted on APC forums on 7/3/2008


Hi Slowpoke,
You posted to this APC discussion forum a request for info on whole house
battery backup. ??? Do you really want to try to power up your home using
a battery backup system? It is my understanding that most small to medium
ups's are square wave output, not a true sinewave as is supplied by your
local power company. Your PC, Printer, Monitor, TV, don't care if their power
is square or sine. But your furnace,refridgerator, sump pump, washing machine
dryer do care!!! They require voltage in the form of a SINEWAVE. So if your
considering using batteries to backup your whole house in the event of a
power outage of long duration, then you should make sure it has a TRUE
SINEWAVE output of the correct frequency for your area. There are two basic
types of battery backup systems. The first is called "OFFLINE" backup UPS.
The keyword here is "offline". It means the batteries are never ever used for
99% of the life of the backup system. That is if you have a reliable power
company. If not, then that 99% becomes 98, 97, 96% because when the
lights go out the electronics inside the backup switches over to battery mode
and starts up the inverter to provide a cheap squarewave to your PC, ETC.
The second type of backup is what I like to call a true "UNINTERRUPTABLE
POWER SUPPLY" !!! The backup UPS is ALWAYS RUNNING ON THE
BATTERIES!!! The only thing the power company needs to do is provide
the voltage and current to keep the batteries charged no matter what the
load may be. The Key here is this. It is completely transparent to the user!!
This type of AC Sinewave power backup is expensive. Most commonly used
by hospitals and big corporations and other emergency services organizations
worldwide. The cost of these systems could be (only a guess) $900/kw on up
to $2000/kw of power. There are companies that specialize in these types
of battery backup. You may want to see what Chloride Systems has to offer
just for laughs and giggles. I don't know if they would even consider doing
anything residential. I know they bought up and now occupy the building
that ONEAC corp was in. They too were in the battery backup business.
Well, I hope that I have supplied some information that will be of use to
you.

lmistyrel@aol.com

See Answer In Context

KVAr_apc
Captain
Captain
0 Likes
0
306

Re: Considering UPS/power condition for my whole house

This was originally posted on APC forums on 7/13/2008


Have you complained to the power company? Try not to spend your own money to correct something utility might correct given enough persistence. That would be a good start. A large double conversion UPS is going to be too costly to run/maintain for a home user.

See Answer In Context

7 Replies 7
Cap1_apc
Lt. Commander
Lt. Commander
0 Likes
0
306

Re: Considering UPS/power condition for my whole house

This was originally posted on APC forums on 3/4/2008


Welcome to the community!

When we size a UPS we would want to know the total power draw at any one time in watts. You would want to take the highest possible load at any one time for UPS sizing, then add 20-40% capacity to give you some room to expand and also to be safe against inrush current. Also, I'm assuming this is a single phase 100amp service?

UPS's of this size are doable, but costly for home implementation. After you confirm the above questions I can give you some ideas, but to give you a ballpark, something this size will likely be close to $10k

slowpoke_apc
Crewman
Crewman
0 Likes
0
307

Re: Considering UPS/power condition for my whole house

This was originally posted on APC forums on 4/9/2008


I have been considering a similar option using a mix of grid pwr
and solar. I need to figure how to install a UPS unit along with
grid and solar mix. I'd need 30kwh average/day at max - less than
20kwh/day normal ops. I'm in talks with a rep from SPP and
a private contractor @TT. I'll post updated info and their suggestions
when I get a better understanding of the project. APC Back UPS
would be an integral part of overall system. Best of luck.
slowpoke7@gmail.com

Louie_apc
Crewman
Crewman
0 Likes
0
307

Re: Considering UPS/power condition for my whole house

This was originally posted on APC forums on 7/3/2008


Hi Slowpoke,
You posted to this APC discussion forum a request for info on whole house
battery backup. ??? Do you really want to try to power up your home using
a battery backup system? It is my understanding that most small to medium
ups's are square wave output, not a true sinewave as is supplied by your
local power company. Your PC, Printer, Monitor, TV, don't care if their power
is square or sine. But your furnace,refridgerator, sump pump, washing machine
dryer do care!!! They require voltage in the form of a SINEWAVE. So if your
considering using batteries to backup your whole house in the event of a
power outage of long duration, then you should make sure it has a TRUE
SINEWAVE output of the correct frequency for your area. There are two basic
types of battery backup systems. The first is called "OFFLINE" backup UPS.
The keyword here is "offline". It means the batteries are never ever used for
99% of the life of the backup system. That is if you have a reliable power
company. If not, then that 99% becomes 98, 97, 96% because when the
lights go out the electronics inside the backup switches over to battery mode
and starts up the inverter to provide a cheap squarewave to your PC, ETC.
The second type of backup is what I like to call a true "UNINTERRUPTABLE
POWER SUPPLY" !!! The backup UPS is ALWAYS RUNNING ON THE
BATTERIES!!! The only thing the power company needs to do is provide
the voltage and current to keep the batteries charged no matter what the
load may be. The Key here is this. It is completely transparent to the user!!
This type of AC Sinewave power backup is expensive. Most commonly used
by hospitals and big corporations and other emergency services organizations
worldwide. The cost of these systems could be (only a guess) $900/kw on up
to $2000/kw of power. There are companies that specialize in these types
of battery backup. You may want to see what Chloride Systems has to offer
just for laughs and giggles. I don't know if they would even consider doing
anything residential. I know they bought up and now occupy the building
that ONEAC corp was in. They too were in the battery backup business.
Well, I hope that I have supplied some information that will be of use to
you.

lmistyrel@aol.com

BillP
Administrator Administrator
Administrator
0 Likes
0
306

Re: Considering UPS/power condition for my whole house

This reply was originally posted by Angela on APC forums on 7/3/2008


Just a note here on the above response. Anything besides APC's "Back UPS" and "Smart UPS SC" lines have a pure sine wave output. Anything large that would be for a house does not have a "step approximated sine wave. (or modified square wave)."

TheNotoriousKMP_apc
Sisko
Sisko
0 Likes
0
306

Re: Considering UPS/power condition for my whole house

This was originally posted on APC forums on 7/3/2008


I think in this instance, to power something as an entire residence and to provide overhead for inrush currents on a freezer, fridge, washer, dryer, etc., we'd be looking ad spec'ing out something like a Symmetra LX. The problem therein lies that if you put it near the service panel to hardwire in/out, what're you going to do about cooling as well? This is why APC probably doesn't manufacture an entire residential UPS system. However, Smart-UPS deployed with something like a Honda generator may actually get the job done for a lot cheaper.

KVAr_apc
Captain
Captain
0 Likes
0
307

Re: Considering UPS/power condition for my whole house

This was originally posted on APC forums on 7/13/2008


Have you complained to the power company? Try not to spend your own money to correct something utility might correct given enough persistence. That would be a good start. A large double conversion UPS is going to be too costly to run/maintain for a home user.

bitmasters_apc
Cadet
0 Likes
0
306

Re: Considering UPS/power condition for my whole house

This was originally posted on APC forums on 3/3/2009


That does seem a bit costly to provide battery backup to the whole house. However, what about line conditioning only? I know APC has the whole house surge protectors that install at the service panel but they don't appear to have line conditioning. I have also seen out on the web several people pushing power conditioning and power saving devices that will connect to the service panel. Many of these tout energy savings of 10-25% while providing surge suppression, line conditioning, EMI/RFI noise reduction etc. I am curious if anyone has any feedback on these devices or if APC does offer a similar product for the whole house.

I run a computer business out of my home and my end goal is to save money while providing consistent power to all the equipment I have in my home from computers to appliances.

Any feedback or recommendations is appreciated.