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Posted: 2021-06-28 11:33 PM . Last Modified: 2024-03-14 02:45 AM
Have a SU 750 XL (Partial SN QS01363233) which performed a self test, dropped the load, and said replace the batteries.
01/19/2010 16:55:42 UPS: Batteries need immediate replacement.
01/19/2010 16:55:38 UPS: Communications established.
01/19/2010 16:55:28 System: Warmstart.
01/19/2010 16:48:06 System: Email failure to trouble2@
01/19/2010 16:47:52 System: Email failure to trouble@
01/19/2010 16:47:36 System: Email failure to trouble2@
01/19/2010 16:47:22 System: Email failure to trouble2@
01/19/2010 16:47:08 UPS: Failed internal diagnostic self-test.
01/19/2010 16:47:06 System: Email failure to trouble@
01/19/2010 16:46:56 UPS: Turned off.
01/19/2010 16:46:52 UPS: Batteries need immediate replacement.
01/18/2010 19:23:48 System: Web user root logged in from
01/12/2010 16:47:54 System: Email failure to trouble2@
01/12/2010 16:47:40 System: Email failure to trouble2@
01/12/2010 16:47:24 System: Email failure to trouble@
01/12/2010 16:47:20 UPS: Communications established.
01/12/2010 16:47:10 System: Coldstart.
01/05/2010 16:47:16 UPS: Passed internal self-test.
12/29/2009 16:47:20 UPS: Passed internal self-test.
The UPS stayed off until I accessed it via the AP9606. I swapped batteries, performed one self test, and UPS reports everythings fine.
I don't understand why the UPS dropped the load. I thought UPS's were supposed to keep the equipment up, not take them down. The previous self test's passed. I read another thread where this situation is know to happen, it would seem I am not the only one that has seen this. I suspect it has happened to me a time or two in the past (recently, actually.)
APC--what causes this, and how do I prevent this from happening again?
I also am dismayed that the e-mail notification tried three times in a period of seconds, then gave up. I would rather the notification attempts continue indefinetly, or at least try again after a minimum of a few minutes. I realize these cards are old, but...
Thanks,
Jeff
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Posted: 2021-06-28 11:34 PM . Last Modified: 2024-03-14 02:45 AM
Not sure what happened with the text to the right, sorry. I don't see an edit button. If someone wants to edit, I would appreciate it.
Jeff
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Posted: 2021-06-28 11:33 PM . Last Modified: 2024-03-14 02:45 AM
Buzz,
Thanks. I am so suprised that APC has a product, however old, that can drop the load due to failing a self test. I have placed a lot of trust in APC, promoted the product as THE product we should use to protect the company I work for, and told all relatives to buy APC.
Follow on...
The product in question is not a 750, it's a SU 700 XL. Oppps, not sure how I mixed that one up.
Most important, what should I do to protect the loads attached to the APC UPS's? Dropping a load for failing a self test is not acceptable. One option is to turn off the self test. However this option would leave the question of how do I know when it''s time to replace the batteries and/or how do I know the UPS will function as intended. Do I perform manual tests (during non-production time)? I wouldn't want to perform a self test even during non-production time, with a server running on the UPS. Would I have to test using a load of some type? If so,what size load would I need?
I feel like I am going to need to purchase a quanity of pepper and salsa to go along with the egg I am going to be eating. I told the higher ups we need to protect our servers, switches and other equipment, and the best protection is APC. They followed my suggestions/advice, and we have a purchased only APC UPS over the years. I haven't seen any offical news from APC indicating this situation could be a problem--granted the unit is nine years old, but while PC's might be old after a few years, I didn't think that would be a problem with a UPS. And since I haven't seen any notification about the problem scenario, how do I know the newer units do not have this problem?
I am thinking my rear end may be much smaller after I inform the higher ups about this situation, and feeling like APC should have notified users of this potential problem.
APC, please comment!
I would appreciate suggestions on how I can reduce this potential problem. Turn off the self test? What should I do to ensure the UPS's are working if I turn off the self test? I really don't want to perform a test on all our UPS's, it's going to take time, and require additional oversight to ensure everything is working.
Does anyone have some nice pepper jack cheese?
Thanks,
Jeff
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Posted: 2021-06-28 11:33 PM . Last Modified: 2024-03-14 02:45 AM
Jeff,
To answer the simplest question first, you need about a 25-30% load to receive accurate results for a self-test.
On to the more nitty-gritty stuff. I realize it probably isn't ideal, but it may help to explain the typical life expectancy is about 7-10 years. You're getting close to 10 years, at which point the internal circuitry can get worn out due to absorbing minor surges over the years, just regular wear and tear. So that alone is a good reason to consider upgrading. On top of that, the improved intelligence is a bonus - I've only ever heard of one SUA unit dropping a load on a self-test and that was commanded manually via the front panel, so I actually think someone may have pressed the wrong button to be honest.
In that regard, I realize budget restraints are often a more significant factor. The only way to be 100% sure the unit won't drop the load on a self-test is by disabling it, in which case you're right; you won't know when the batteries need to be replaced without manually running self-tests. While a dropped load is hardly common, since typically the unit will be able to detect a battery going bad long before it's at the point of dropping your load during a ~10 second self-test, it is possible.
Please note that the battery must be very old/discharged for this to happen. It's not a matter of failing the self-test, it's not even getting to that stage of evaluation, as it's likely dropping as it immediately transfers to battery. The only way I can think of a battery getting that bad and not triggering a replace battery alarm earlier would be if the load on the unit is quite low. This goes back to the 25-30% load for a self-test. If the load is low, for example around 10%, the unit may falsely pass the self-test because it can't accurately test the battery with such a low load.
Other factors may be invalid self-tests. For example, if the battery charge is below 75%, the unit will consider conditions invalid for testing and will abort the test, which does not result in a failure indication. It doesn't even do the test at the risk of something going wrong.
Hope some of that info helps.
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Posted: 2021-06-28 11:33 PM . Last Modified: 2024-03-14 02:45 AM
Matt,
Thanks for the reply, good information. Not what I wanted to hear, but that's life.
I checked the load on the UPS and it says 36%. The load is a Cisco switch, three Cisco wireless bridges and a Linksys AP. Pretty steady load. The batteries were old, but I don't know the date. The self tests were run weekly, according to the log. I think that means either the battery wasn't charged fully, which you said wouldn't show a failure upon self test (I dislike objects that lie!), the 36% load isn't sufficent or the load isn't indicated accurately. Time to haul out a heater or a halogen light (load) and spend time testing.
I'm an idealist, and would like to think that UPS's should last more than two battery changes, but I had better put on my realist pants and work on replacing some of the older UPS's. As an Idealist, I would also like to have seen APC letting users know that dropping a load during a self test is possible. I would then be able to make an informed choice, and would have probably chosen to replace a few UPS, and move the older units to less critical applications. My confidence in APC products is diminished.
Thanks for the information,
Jeff
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Posted: 2021-06-28 11:34 PM . Last Modified: 2024-03-14 02:45 AM
Have a SU 750 XL (Partial SN QS01363233) which performed a self test, dropped the load, and said replace the batteries.
01/19/2010 16:55:42 UPS: Batteries need immediate replacement.
01/19/2010 16:55:38 UPS: Communications established.
01/19/2010 16:55:28 System: Warmstart.
01/19/2010 16:48:06 System: Email failure to trouble2@
01/19/2010 16:47:52 System: Email failure to trouble@
01/19/2010 16:47:36 System: Email failure to trouble2@
01/19/2010 16:47:22 System: Email failure to trouble2@
01/19/2010 16:47:08 UPS: Failed internal diagnostic self-test.
01/19/2010 16:47:06 System: Email failure to trouble@
01/19/2010 16:46:56 UPS: Turned off.
01/19/2010 16:46:52 UPS: Batteries need immediate replacement.
01/18/2010 19:23:48 System: Web user root logged in from
01/12/2010 16:47:54 System: Email failure to trouble2@
01/12/2010 16:47:40 System: Email failure to trouble2@
01/12/2010 16:47:24 System: Email failure to trouble@
01/12/2010 16:47:20 UPS: Communications established.
01/12/2010 16:47:10 System: Coldstart.
01/05/2010 16:47:16 UPS: Passed internal self-test.
12/29/2009 16:47:20 UPS: Passed internal self-test.
The UPS stayed off until I accessed it via the AP9606. I swapped batteries, performed one self test, and UPS reports everythings fine.
I don't understand why the UPS dropped the load. I thought UPS's were supposed to keep the equipment up, not take them down. The previous self test's passed. I read another thread where this situation is know to happen, it would seem I am not the only one that has seen this. I suspect it has happened to me a time or two in the past (recently, actually.)
APC--what causes this, and how do I prevent this from happening again?
I also am dismayed that the e-mail notification tried three times in a period of seconds, then gave up. I would rather the notification attempts continue indefinetly, or at least try again after a minimum of a few minutes. I realize these cards are old, but...
Thanks,
Jeff
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Posted: 2021-06-28 11:34 PM . Last Modified: 2024-03-14 02:45 AM
Not sure what happened with the text to the right, sorry. I don't see an edit button. If someone wants to edit, I would appreciate it.
Jeff
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