PCBE/WinXP interaction will make my computer freeze

[Anonymous user]

Hello there, first post here 😄

Since I installed PowerChute on my computer I have been dealing with a problem that somehow has to do with the way PowerChute interacts with the power management functions of Windows.

I am now going to tell you how it showed up from the beginning: when I first installed PCBE the Windows blue "on battery" icon would for no reason and randomly show up in the system tray and whenever I moved the mouse pointer over it it would disappear. Additionally, and this the actual problem, the computer would freeze whenever I left it alone for a time long enough, like overnight or the whole day, at some point it would just freeze.
After a few tests I found out that the problem was in the Windows power management settings, after I checked the button to show the power icon in the tray all the time I had no problems, the computer would no longer freeze and the icon would no longer go crazy. I could keep the computer running for six days in a row without a glitch.

By then, the day had come and I formatted everything. Since then I never got the thing to work right again because i can't recreate the only particular condition it works under. I formatted several times trying different combinations, I mean stuff like disabling the Windows native UPS support then installing PCBE, installing Windows and letting it manage the UPS until I installed PCBE and so on.

The mythical unreplicable particular condition is some sort of two-sided management by both PCBE and Windows, in the Windows power settings I was able to set different shutdown times for the monitor and the hard drives for whether it was running on line or on battery, to set it to show a popup balloon when the power failed and as I said I had to keep the power icon shown all the time. The icon actually changed from the grey plug to the blue battery icon when I cut the power for my tests.
Right now if I was to cut the power the icon would remain a grey plug, the computer doesn't know it's running on battery and if I leave it alone it will eventually freeze for some reason.

Maybe there are things that could be described better, if you have any questions about my system or software configurations just ask them, even things you would take for granted because I like keeping disabled the stuff I don't use. If you are aware of any services that need to be active tell me, I may have disabled them.

My UPS is a Smart-UPS SUA1000I, I use PCBE 8.0 Single Node through the Web interface and Windows XP SP3. The UPS is connected directly to the motherboard via the USB cable provided in the UPS box.

Thanks to all those who will reply 😄

[Erasmus_apc]

Please post any findings you come up with so that customers with any similar issues can be made aware of a fix, or at least the nature of the issue.

Hopefully this streak without freezing will continue and our problem source has been identified...

[Anonymous user]

When this problem is occurring (or when you are trying to replicate it), can you post a screenshot of your Start->Run->services.msc screens so that we can see what processes are running? It would be best to capture all parts/pages of the services.msc screen so this may be 3-4 screenshots.+

Okay, these are my services window screenshots:

[http://www.pctunerup.com/up/image.php?src=_200812/20081204191338_services1.jpg]

[http://www.pctunerup.com/up/image.php?src=_200812/20081204191402_services2.jpg]

Since it's in Italian and since we care about disabled services I only translated the names of the disabled ones which are not so straightforward to translate to English, they may not be called exactly this way in the English version of Windows but you get the meaning:

Accesso rete > Net access
Aggiornamenti automatici > Automatic updates
Avvisi > Warnings
Avvisi e registri di prestazioni > Performance warnings and records
Centro sicurezza PC > PC security center
Compatibilità di cambio rapido utente > Fast user switching compatibility
Condivisione desktop remoto di NetMeeting > NetMeeting remote desktop sharing
Gestione di assistenza mediante desktop remoto > Assistance session management through a remote desktop
Gruppo di continuità > Uninterruptible power supply
Guida in linea e supporto tecnico > Online help and technical support

Registro di sistema remoto > Remote system registry
Servizio di segnalazione errori > Error reporting service
Servizio ripristino configurazione di sistema > System configuration restoring service
Spooler di stampa > Print spooler
Utilità di pianificazione > Planning utility


Does this "freeze" require a computer reboot to resolve? I couldn't positively tell from your notes.+

Yes it does, I just find a screenshot of my desktop with no disk activity.


Can you also post a screenshot of your Windows Power Options "Power Meter", "Advanced", and "Advanced Settings" tabs?+

[http://www.pctunerup.com/up/image.php?src=_200812/20081204191215_power1.jpg]

[http://www.pctunerup.com/up/image.php?src=_200812/20081204191301_power2.jpg]

Nothing to see here, when it used to work I was able to set shutdown times for the monitor and the hard drives depending on the power source, line or battery, there were sliders to set the tresholds for the "low battery" and "almost discharged" warnings and there was an additional tab containing UPS information. The power icon would actually work then and the computer would know it was running on battery.


Are you using any kind of anti-virus program/suites on the computer?+

I use avast and ZoneAlarm.


Any kind of XPtweak or TuneXP programs running that would be used to "enhance" OS performance?+

Nope.


Have you ever used a previous version of PowerChute Business Edition on this computer? (I ask this out of curiosity just to see if you had better luck with an older version.)+

Yeah at first I tried to install the PCBE 7.0.5 5-Node version that came with the UPS but I removed it almost instantly because it was pissing me off with notification settings and I couldn't really understand the agent, server and console trinity thing. I find the Web interface much better for me.


Finally...if you can force this "freeze" to happen or have the icon freak out, can you provide the Windows Event Viewer logs for around that time? Control Panel ->Admin Tools -> Event Viewer. System and Application will do.+

Yes, I can just let the system freeze and post a report here, actually I could do that right now but I don't know at what time the computer froze the last time so I'll just let it freeze another time.

[Erasmus_apc]

When this problem is occurring (or when you are trying to replicate it), can you post a screenshot of your Start->Run->services.msc screens so that we can see what processes are running? It would be best to capture all parts/pages of the services.msc screen so this may be 3-4 screenshots.

Does this "freeze" require a computer reboot to resolve? I couldn't positively tell from your notes.

Can you also post a screenshot of your Windows Power Options "Power Meter", "Advanced", and "Advanced Settings" tabs?

Are you using any kind of anti-virus program/suites on the computer?

Any kind of XPtweak or TuneXP programs running that would be used to "enhance" OS performance?

Have you ever used a previous version of PowerChute Business Edition on this computer? (I ask this out of curiosity just to see if you had better luck with an older version.)

Finally...if you can force this "freeze" to happen or have the icon freak out, can you provide the Windows Event Viewer logs for around that time? Control Panel ->Admin Tools -> Event Viewer. System and Application will do.

[Erasmus_apc]

Have you tried running without Avast and ZoneAlarm running? I haven't heard anything specific in terms of issues with those programs but out of curiosity I'd like to see if there is any conflict going on there with the PCBE agent.

I'll wait to advise anything else until the System and Application logs are posted.

[Anonymous user]

Got the logs:

[http://www.pctunerup.com/up/image.php?src=_200812/20081205233143_events_application.jpg]

I booted the computer at about 12:14 AM today 12/5. It froze at 10:24 AM, I can tell this because the desktop was stuck at that time. There are no logs from the boot until 5:59 PM when I found the computer frozen and rebooted it, so nothing to see here.
That APCPBEAgent log of 12/3 says "UPS On Battery", it is yet to be seen how it knew it was running on battery.


[http://www.pctunerup.com/up/image.php?src=_200812/20081205233221_events_system.jpg]

Here you can see that after the boot there are "nvgts" errors every hour, the last one ten minutes before the lockup. They all say "Parity error on \Device\Scsi
vgts2", not sure about why they are there as I'm not experiencing data corruption. nvgts is the motherboard SATA or IDE driver.


Anyway, I decided to do some tests and removed PCBE, after that the whole thing started to work again. It happened after PCBE automatically re-enabled the Windows UPS service even if in services.msc it was still marked as disabled. In the Windows power settings I got back my battery sliders, separate shutdown times for the monitor and the HDDs and the UPS information tab.
I tried then to reinstall PCBE and all of the options remained there, the power icon seems to be actually working too, it regularly switches from online to battery and to the recharging status.

The only big result is that I didn't understand what happened so tomorrow I'm doing a few formats to try to get everything to work on the first try.

One last question: are the options in the Windows power settings actually supposed to be there in a normal PCBE installation or they are a remnant of the Windows UPS service after it gets disabled by PCBE?

[Anonymous user]

Okay I think I got it working, in a way I don't particularly like and for sure not the one the APC software guys intended.

I installed Windows and the most basic stuff in order to make a quick test, I kept the UPS connected through the whole install process. Before instaling PCBE I had all of the options in the power settings window: separate shutdown times, battery sliders etc.; after I installed the program those options were gone, the power icon would obviously not work and the computer would not know it was running on battery when I cut the power.

In the Device Manager under Batteries the UPS was listed as APC Battery BackUP, if I clicked on "Driver details" it would tell me that (translated) "No driver file is requested or has been loaded for the device/peripheral". The driver version is 1.0.0.0, dated 9/5/2001.
I tried to click on "Update driver". The device name changed to HID UPS Battery and I got my power options back and the icon to work. The driver version is 5.1.2535.0 dated 7/1/2001. Then I restored the previous driver to see what would happen, the device was renamed again to APC Battery BackUP and I lost my options.

Is this any useful?

[Anonymous user]

You gave me a lot of useful information. Now I know that the icon is actually supposed not to work, that the power options are supposed to disappear and that the driver in the Device Manager is supposed to display the "No drivers required or installed" message. Everything looks fine in my installs then. Now I'm on a fresh Windows install, I could just restore the APC driver and see what happens, I'm 99% sure that it would freeze that way.

There's got to be something somewhere that's making this happen. At the moment I can't think of any way not to make the computer freeze apart from having the UPS managed by both PCBE and Windows.

About the serial connection, I thought about trying and using it but my motherboard doesn't have such a port. I would need to get one of those dongles that replicate the RS-232 port from the motherboard connector to a PCI bracket.

[Erasmus_apc]

Well, the icon technically will "show up" but it will not change state and its presence will be pointless.

As of now I can't think of anything (short of wild guesses) else that might cause the computer to freeze like that while using PCBE. Maybe one of our other forums users will have some input. We don't technically support USB->Serial converters but you're welcome to try...worst case you just uninstall it. As a last resort you could call Microsoft or check their Knowledge Bases to see if they have any input on ACPI or USB issues that are similar to this. I would almost be tempted to say it sounds like an issue with a HID component or USB driver but other than the icon behaving oddly in your first post and the freezes, the UPS seems to comm. fine and even most of the Windows components are behaving.

[BillP]

I would try installing PCBE 7 just to see if it makes a difference.

If you don't like the 3 part install of PCBE 7 then you can just install the agent. To access the agent on its own open a browser and type in http://127.0.0.1:3052 and it will take you to the user name/password prompt. From there you can do most of what you would be able to do in the console.

Let us know if that makes a difference.

[Anonymous user]

Yes I already know about the Web interface, actually I dropped the console as soon as I read I could do without it because it was too much 😄

Right now I'm using PCBE 8.0 Single-node the way it's meant to be used, that means no double management, no power icon and the right driver in the Device Manager. The computer didn't freeze in seventeen hours, quite a lot but you never know. If it doesn't work again then I'm trying the serial connection.

[Anonymous user]

Guess what, it froze.

At this point the problem seems to be really very simple: with the APC driver it will freeze, with the Windows driver it will work.

And the question is: what in my computer is different from thousands of computers worldwide running a Smart-UPS with PCBE 8.0 via USB? Perhaps a service, a BIOS setting, I assume it's not the motherboard driver because I tried changing it, perhaps it's something that is installed and I would never tell it could give me problems.

The problem is random too, if I could force the computer into error it would be much easier to troubleshoot but as it is right now I can't wait twenty hours to verify if a setting works or not. Today I left the computer alone for seventeen hours without any problems, I used it half an hour, left it alone for another two hours and it froze.
The problem doesn't show up at given times such as when PCBE logs an event or anything.

Isn't the Windows driver from APC too? How is it different from the one that installs with PCBE?

Now I'm trying to uninstall the AMD Processor Driver, it does some power management things which I keep disabled inside the BIOS anyway making the driver pretty much useless.

[Anonymous user]

Since I uninstalled the AMD Processor Driver the computer hasn't frozen once in almost six days, now I should re-install it and see if it starts freezing again.

The processor is an old AMD Opteron 165, K8 stuff, the mentioned driver is useful for instantaneous frequency and voltage shifts depending on the processor load but since I keep the Cool'n'Quiet feature disabled inside the BIOS it actually does nothing. Apart from freezing my computer, that is. I should do a little research and see if that driver is any useful with SP3.

[Erasmus_apc · Accepted solution]

I know you've reformatted a few times using Windows XP...there should be absolutely no reason why PCBE would freeze your computer with a fresh Windows install and a fresh PCBE install as well. The PCBE software is fully compatible with the Windows ACPI and we have not gotten widespread reports of Windows XP SP3 having freezing issues. Let me know if working with any of the AMD optios or BIOS settings helps.

What exactly are you running for a processor and motherboard? And what is your memory type? Hard drive type and size?