Critical - Battery power too low to support load

[mlewis_apc]

This message is coming from my Smart UPS 10000 constantly, hundreds and hundreds per day.

There is no useful information telling me why all of my batteries would suddenly become too low to handle the load when everything was fine days ago.

First, how can I slow this alter down so it doesn't keep sending so many.

Second, is the UPS suggesting that I check each battery pack, then isolate which battery is at fault?

Code: 0x0107

Critical - UPS: The battery power is too low to support the load; if power fails, the UPS will be shut down immediately.

Thanks for any help and apologies on my previous message as I cannot find it so cannot thank the person who offered some input.

[mlewis_apc]

The calibration was definitely run so it's interesting this doesn't show up in the logs. Makes me wonder what else is not showing.

I wonder if I accidentally turned off certain notifications when I was configuring the logs? I could turn it all back on for now.

About UPS
Model:	Smart-UPS RT 10000 RM XL
Position:	RACK
Serial Number:	YS0451110605
Firmware Revision:	476.13.M
Manufacture Date:	12/13/04

[BillP · Accepted solution]

Ok, if I go back and ballpark how much runtime you should be getting, it is about ~20-30 minutes. I went to Extended Runtime Options and then figured out 33% of the UPS capacity which is about 2680 watts so I used 2500W as the value and it said 27 minutes. I'd expect then a little under 27 minutes based on that is what it should be reporting.

Also, I got the logs, thank you. I noticed on the 3rd (when you replaced the batteries, right?) you started also getting battery charger fault/charger fault cleared messages. I also did not notice anything about the calibration in the log as you noted.

I need to discuss this a little further with someone else but then we may need to manually update the runtime. The other thing, can you tell me under UPS->About in the web UI what the firmware is of that UPS i.e. 654.17.D or similar?

[Anonymous user · Accepted solution]

Hi Angela,

I am having the same in Smart-UPS RT 6000 XL.We just replaced all of the batteries and now the unit will show that the "Battery Capacity" is at 100%  and load is around 69% + - .

Runtime Remaining:     6 minutes

Power

Input Voltage:     223.2 VAC    

Output Voltage:  230.4 VAC

Current:   Input Frequency:     49.98 Hz

Load

Load Power:     69.0 %Watts

Apparent Load Power:     56.0 %VA

Load Current:     14.72 Amps

Battery

Capacity:        100.0 %

Battery Voltage:   213.8 VDC

External Batteries:     2

But as soon as we calibrate for run time calculation, or anything that requires the unit to switch to battery power, the battery level immediately drops to 0%. I am also getting a lot of alarms that say: "UPS: The battery power is too low to support the load; if power fails, the UPS will be shut down immediately." followed by "UPS: A low battery condition no longer exists", and if utility power fails Unit shutdown immediately. UPS configured Low Battery Duration is 2 Minutes.

I have also tried to fix the Smart Constants via  utility APC FIX Rev 2.7.1.182.

Thanks,

Nomam

[BillP]

Hi Angela,

I am having the same in Smart-UPS RT 8000XL. We just replaced all of the batteries and now I have a Runtime Remaining 1 min.

I have tested the command apc>ups -r Start in the CLI but the time has no change.

STATUS

Last Battery Transfer: Due to software command or UPS's test control

Internal Temperature: 26.3°C

Runtime Remaining: 1minute Power Input Voltage: 234.7 VAC Output Voltage: 230.4 VAC Input

Frequency: 50.02 Hz

Load

Load Power: 21.0 %Watts

Apparent Load Power: 21.0 %VA

Load Current: 7.52 Amps

Battery Capacity: 31.0 %

Battery Voltage: 218.1 VDC

External Batteries: 2

About

UPS Model: Smart-UPS RT 8000 XL

Position: TOWER

Serial Number: QS1214150117

Firmware Revision: 477.18.W Manufacture Date: 04/02/12

Have you a solution?

Thanks

Thomas

[BillP]

If a runtime calibration is not working for anyone when issued via software or Network Mgmt Card, a manual calibration should be attempted. If that is not easily possible or has already been attempted, then what is provided/done in the third party APC Fix utility is what would be provided by us. Though, I cannot guarantee that utility will work since it is not made or provided by APC. I would suggest that anyone who has this issue contacts their local support and asks for help resetting the battery constants for their UPS if you just replaced the batteries, the low battery duration is set properly or has not been changed per what is here -> Why are the battery charge LEDs flashing on a Smart-UPS? | FAQs | Schneider Electric US and the problem is with the runtime reporting being incorrect after the batteries were replaced.

[BillP]

Hi,

I have tested your method but I have no change. The time in the web manager is 11min but after a test, the batteries last nearly a 1h45. Have you an idea of the problem?

Thanks Thomas

[BillP]

As I mentioned, if it does not work, contact your local technical support for help adjusting the battery constants as a last resort.

[Anonymous user]

Angela,

I am looking to fix the calibration issue, as per Web utility estimated runtime is 28 min with 70% Load but backup is only 10 min. Could you  Please send me Battery smart constants parameters detail for Smart-UPS RT 6000 XL or any other procedure Thomas was referring  above.

Thanks.

Noman

[Anonymous user]

Hi Angela, I am also having this exact same issue on a Smart-UPS RT 8000 XL.  We replaced the batteries about 1 year ago.  I have also tried a Runtime Calibration to no effect.

Thanks for your assistance.

[BillP]

Can you provide the log files from your UPS? How much runtime is the UPS reporting?

[BillP]

That is what technical support is able to provide to you and why I referred you to them so that I don't have to keep up with manually sending it out to every person that finds this post each time. It is also a last resort after the other items we ran through and discussed.

[Anonymous user · Accepted solution]

Hi Angela,

I also have the same issue, the ups model is SmartUPS 1500I, when I connect one of the server power cable all the battery leds begin to flash an the powerchut software reports there is no power to support the load.

In the agent parameter it report 20% load and 0 minutes runtime.

Everytime the power fails the ups shutsdown the server inmediately.

The batteries were replaced last year, but it always report the same problem since the day we replace it.

thanks,

Miguel

Mensaje editado por: Miguel Romaní  I have seen it reports 8 minutes runtime with 14% load but 0 minutes with 18% or more

[BillP]

OK, I'll send you a private message on here in a few minutes. I just need to look something up for that UPS model.

[Anonymous user]

Yes, the runtime calibration has the same effect as the self-test. It says that it "passes" but the battery level drops to 0% and everything else remains the same.

Message was edited by: Brian S. It should also be noted that the Runtime Remaining is around 2 to 3 min which is not right. I have the Low battery duration set to the minimum (2min)

[Anonymous user]

Hi Angela, I am having the same exact problem as mlewis only with a SURT6000XLT. I was hoping you could send me the steps you had him do on the service level.

Just as a bit more background:

We just replaced all of the batteries and now the unit will show that the "Battery Capacity" is at 100% but as soon as we do a self-test, or anything that requires the unit to switch to battery power, the battery level imediatly drops to 0%. I am also getting a lot of alarms that say: "UPS: The battery power is too low to support the load; if power fails, the UPS will be shut down immediately." followed by "UPS: A low battery condition no longer exists." and then repeat every 10 seconds or so.

Thanks for your assistance,

Brian

[BillP]

Have you tried a runtime calibration yet?

[mlewis_apc]

Hi Angela,

I finally replaced those batteries and so I am now ready to reset the unit so that it reads proper voltage.

Thanks.

Mike

[BillP]

You mean proper runtime? Is it all charged up? And still reading as 3 minutes? The first thing we'd probably do is just issue a runtime calibration via the Network Management Card.

[mlewis_apc]

Minutes after installing the new batts, the runtime was 4 minutes. This morning is was 5 minutes.

I just ran the recalibration and it now says 0 minutes run time. Battery capacity is now showing 7.0%, last night, it was showing 100%.

A few moments later, refreshed the screen and it now shows 9% batt cap and slowly rising.

Guessing it's doing it's calibration thing?

[BillP]

Still the same ~33% load? Did the event log say anything about runtime calibration started/completed? Do we know how long it ran on battery during the calibration?

[mlewis_apc]

It runs on battery during calibration??? I didn't know that, nothing went down, the network stayed up, whew.

Um, right now, it's at 100% batt cap but still says only 4 minutes of runtime and the alarm is still going off telling me the following below. I hope I didn't replace those batteries for nothing. Very confusing.

10/04/2013	13:03:10	UPS: A discharged battery condition no longer exists.
10/04/2013	13:03:04	UPS: The battery power is too low to support the load; if power fails, the UPS will be shut down immediately.
10/04/2013	13:03:03	UPS: A discharged battery condition no longer exists.
10/04/2013	13:02:59	UPS: The battery power is too low to support the load; if power fails, the UPS will be shut down immediately.
10/04/2013	13:02:58	UPS: A discharged battery condition no longer exists.

Status
Last Battery Transfer:	Due to software command or UPS's test control
Internal Temperature:	92.4°F
Runtime Remaining:	4 minutes
Power
Input Voltage:	243.3 VAC
Bypass Input Voltage:
Output Voltage:	209.4 VAC
Current:
Input Frequency:	59.99 Hz
Load
Load Power:	33.0 %Watts
Apparent Load Power:	28.0 %VA
Load Current:	13.90 Amps
Battery
Capacity:	100.0 %
Battery Voltage:	216.0 VDC
External Batteries:	1

Smart-UPS RT 10000 RM XL: UPS_AZ

Replacement Battery Needed

At least one faulty battery exists.

Self-Test Failed

Failed a self-test.

[mlewis_apc]

I just tried a load tester on a few of the old batteries. They all show in the green, with WEAK being their tested reading but now I'm wondering if it's the UPS itself that isn't changing them or something.

[mlewis_apc]

I added about 400Watts to the load and now my runtime went down to three minutes.

[mlewis_apc]

Sorry, I overlooked your other question. There is no mention of the word 'calibration' in the log.

It is still showing the same as before the batteries were changed, now two days ago.

All four cartridges show a voltage of 108VDC

Replacement Battery Needed

At least one faulty battery exists.

Self-Test Failed

Failed a self-test.

[BillP · Accepted solution]

Yes, a runtime calibration puts the UPS on battery and discharges them between 10-20% depending on the UPS then lets the system charge up.

Did these batteries have a serial number on them (assuming APC batteries)?

Can you provide the new event/data logs? You should see a runtime calibration started/completed event. How did you initiate it? Also, in the management card, if you did it that way, the screen should tell you when the last calibration happened.

[mlewis_apc]

This message is coming from my Smart UPS 10000 constantly, hundreds and hundreds per day.

There is no useful information telling me why all of my batteries would suddenly become too low to handle the load when everything was fine days ago.

First, how can I slow this alter down so it doesn't keep sending so many.

Second, is the UPS suggesting that I check each battery pack, then isolate which battery is at fault?

Code: 0x0107

Critical - UPS: The battery power is too low to support the load; if power fails, the UPS will be shut down immediately.

Thanks for any help and apologies on my previous message as I cannot find it so cannot thank the person who offered some input.

[BillP]

To change your notification settings, you'll want to go to the Network Management Card web UI, go to Administration->Notification-> By Event/By group. The default setting if you don't change it is to get every event every 2 minutes until the condition clears so that nobody can complain they didn't get notified.

If you want to change the setting on just this one event, select by Event as noted above, and then I select the main heading Power Events and then scroll down until you find this event. Once you do, select it and you'll see where you can edit the notification for a delay, repeat, and interval. Then click apply.

You can do the same for groups of events by severity or by group.

I need to see the log files though and can you let me know how much runtime the UPS reports? How much load is on the UPS percentage wise?

With the log files, then I can see if this is related to a setting. It sounds like your reported runtime is within two minutes of the low battery duration time (which is also two minutes). But if someone raised this value, it could cause an issue too.

Instructions on downloading log files are here -> How can I download Event, Data, Configuration, and Debug files from my Network Management Card? | FA...

[Anonymous user]

hi mlewis this alarm The battery power is too low to support the load; if power fails, the UPS will be shut down immediately explain that  probably you have a fail in the modules of batteries;  the ups  model surta10000xl have 4 modules of batteries you have to check the voltage shoul be 105 vdc each module.otherwise you will have change the 4 modules of batteries remember that the battery life is aprox 3 years.

[mlewis_apc]

I see what you are talking about, being able to get to the Event and I do see Delay, Repeat and Internet but it's set to 12hrs. I turned off the SNMP alerts and for some reason, that seems to have stopped the alerts.

Here is the status;

Status

Status Last Battery Transfer: Due to software command or UPS's test control Internal Temperature: 96.4°F Runtime Remaining: 3 minutes Power Input Voltage: 249.1 VAC Bypass Input Voltage: Output Voltage: 209.4 VAC Current: Input Frequency: 60.00 Hz Load Load Power: 33.0 %Watts Apparent Load Power: 29.0 %VA Load Current: 13.77 Amps Battery Capacity: 100.0 % Battery Voltage: 214.9 VDC External Batteries: 1 The repeated email alter is; UPS: A discharged battery condition no longer exists. 06/26/2013 13:18:49 UPS: The battery power is too low to support the load; if power fails, the UPS will be shut down immediately. My settings are; Rated Output Voltage:    208 VAC Bypass Upper Voltage:    229 VAC Bypass Lower Voltage:    146 VAC Output Frequency:   Auto Hz Note: Changing the Rated Output Voltage may change the Bypass Upper/Lower Voltages and may take a minute to update.

I am guessing it is the latter settings which are causing this or the 214VDC battery voltage is too low? This started just a week ago or so. The batteries are about 1 1/2 years old.

Thanks.

[BillP]

HI mlewis

I think the problem is that your reported runtime is 3 minutes (which that probably isnt correct, right?) It is probably within two minutes of the low battery duration which you did not post (located under shutdown settings near the shutdown delay, etc). That is set to two minutes but default so with a reported runtime of three minutes, it's generating this message.

So, basically, this could've happened if the UPS recently went to battery or did a self test where it recalculated the runtime. My question is: how old are these batteries? If they are within 3-5 years (their typical lifetime), it may be time to consider replacement but if they are relatively new, then we need to adjust the displayed runtime by one of a few different methods.

Another thing I am seeing (completely separate) is that you're inputting 250V but outputting 208V - if you're in the USA, this typically is not good practice and you should output what you input since if the UPS goes to bypass, your load will see a higher voltage than its currently receiving which could cause a problem if you supply the wrong voltage. Do you know why it is set like this? Changing it might disrupt the output so we should discuss first.

[mlewis_apc]

The solution was to have Angela walk me through some service level commands to get the UPS back to reading the battery voltage normally.

Thank you very much for all of your help on this and for getting things back to normal for me.

Mike

[mlewis_apc]

Hi,

I recently accidentally shut down the UPS by connecting the wrong cable to it when I was trying to get the web management card to work again.

I am also installing a generator to this setup as I had in my old setup so I only need a couple of minutes standby. The generator takes 30 seconds to be ready then it's transfer switch will switch the load. When the power comes back, it will switch back to utility. This is the setup I had before.

As for the runtime, I posted the Status screen, should I be posting something else?

Finally, the reason for the weird voltage setup is because I am using a couple of voltage drop down units to get 120VAC from two of the UPS's connections on the back. The input on those is 208VAC and I was told that I need to match this voltage. I am aware that there will be a big voltage spike but I was told it would be ok. So far, it's never damaged my equipment but I'd love to have things as they should be if this is not how it should be set up. Yes, I am in the US so my utility voltage is 240VAC.

Here are the Shutdown settings;

Shutdown
Start of Shutdown
Low Battery Duration:	02 minutes
Shutdown Delay:	020 seconds
Maximum Required Delay:	2 minutes
Basic Signaling Shutdown:	Enable
Duration of Shutdown
Sleep Time:	hours [0 to 359.9]
End of Shutdown
Minimum Battery Capacity:	00 %
Return Delay:	000 seconds

[BillP]

OK I understand. Also, the status screen was good and I also needed the shutdown one here to confirm my thoughts (which you just provided). Do you know how much runtime is typically reported via the management card? With your load, it seems like 3 minutes reported is too low so that comes back to my battery age question and how old they are because it is either reporting 3 because they are really old and low capacity or they are newer and the UPS does not know it has new batteries in it and needs to be calibrated. Once we get the UPS to display the correct amount of runtime, the issue you're having will be fixed. You probably also have a flashing battery bar graph on the front panel of the UPS..?

And OK on the voltage - you're right. If you step down 240v, you'll get 136 or so via the step down transformer when you don't use a step down that can do 208 or 240v. As long as the equipment can handle it, no major issue I suppose.

[mlewis_apc]

On your first question, I guess I don't know as I've not been monitoring it for a while. The server room was rebuilt last Aug and everything got moved so I wasn't monitoring the UPS as closely as I usually have. As for battery age, I seem to have made a note in Configuration/general that they were changed out July/2010 but I could swear I changed at least two packs last year because there were some other anomalies which I had posted here asking about.

I don't recall doing any calibrations and yes, you're right about the flashing lights.

As to using the step down, I'd love to equalize that at least a little more but I'm not sure how since the step down needs 208V, unless it can run at a higher voltage. That was very confusing to me considering they are for US use.

[BillP]

So the UPS has additional external battery packs? Is it just one? (I noted in your status page it reported only 1 external battery pack). And they are all different ages? Are we able to verify the first six digits of the serial number on them to verify age? As you know, the NMC only keeps a spot for a single replace battery date which is because typically, you swap them all out at the same time.

What I am getting at is if the batteries are not brand new, then you could try a calibration whether its via the management card or manually (with at least 30% load that does not fluctuate +/-5% that can run until the UPS turns off) to see if the runtime adjusts but if they are three years old (and depending on usage and environment), it just might be time for some new batteries. If these were brand new, then I'd say there is an obvious issue since the runtime should update.

So, if the batteries are indeed 3 years old (for the most part), they may just need replacing and havent really failed a self test yet. The true test is understanding how long they actually do support the load if you put it on battery.

And on the stepdown, we usually see 208V or 240V domestically here but some of the older transformers only support 208V - the newer ones like SURT003 can support 208/240->120.

[mlewis_apc]

It only has it's four trays, no externals.

Age, yes, two are one year older than the last two I changed out. I only changed them out because I was having a similar problem. Again, I believe this is a post somewhere from a year back or so when I was having that problem. No one was as thourough as you are so I guess I messed up. I bought them from Grubber I believe. What is the 6 digit number you need?

I can't see any model numbers on the step downs because of they way they are in the racks but they do say 208VAC input on the backs. I don't understand this because they were US products for use in the US.

[BillP]

I think I found it -> http://forums.apc.com/thread/7041

The six digit number I was looking for would be on the modules I believe on a white sticker - they are probably model # RBC44 - which tells me their age.

With the step down transformer, both 208V and 240V are used here domestically where as 230V is what you see overseas. I believe just some of our older design stepsdowns were at 208V and also before maybe we had A LOT of Smart UPS that did 208V or 240V. That is when we also developed the newer stepdown products that can input 208 OR 240 and step it down correctly.

So, I think it just boils down to a particular model just happened to be designed for 208V and nobody considered making it so it can 208V or 240V for stepdown since both are used in the US. The other model does do that and it is newer.

[mlewis_apc]

Glad you found it, I wasn't able to .

So my only option is to buy new step downs or use the generator I'm installing I guess. Since we can't afford the cost of the step downs right now, I guess it'll have to be the geny.

So now that you know the age of my batteries, I still have the flashing battery lights you were telling me about so am hoping you might have a suggestion for my next step.

Mike

[BillP]

Well if you bought them in 2010 (or at least some of them), they'd be three years old now..I mean to me, it seems like the batteries have low capacity and it is time for new ones. It seems like the UPS realized this at some point and is displaying the low runtime when it realized it (like after a on battery event).

Do you disagree that anything else caused this? I am going by the fact they are three years old and are showing this. It certainly isnt normal for brand new ones but 3 years is typical with moderate usage. I am thinking we need (2) RBC44 which gives you the (4) internal modules.

[mlewis_apc]

I don't know but I guess I agree that it's time for new batteries.

It does seem like these UPS batteries never last very long however and replacing them gets rather pricey.

[mlewis_apc]

I'm looking online and it's not clear to me how many batteries an RBC44 is.

Are you saying I should replace all of the batteries which would be four of the battery containers.

If I replace all of the batteries, I could just buy the batteries on their own and install them into the containers as I've done before. Once I've done that, maybe start a new thread to make sure I calibrate the machine this time.

First, I just need to end this thread by knowing if we are agreeing that this is the problem, I need to change the batteries and if so, what an RBC44 is.

Thanks.

[BillP]

Hi mlewis RBC44 is two physical modules per qty 1 of the part number.

Your UPS would require qty 2 of RBC44 then. This is based on what you've told me and that you do not have any of the external battery packs attached (SURT192XLBP) for extended runtime.

FYI - at this link -> https://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=SURT10000XLT, you'll see under batteries & runtime, it says the RBC44, qty 2 if you wanted some documentation.

I do agree this is the problem based on what we've discussed so far.

[BillP · Accepted solution]

I sent you a forum message to discuss some options.