A backfeed relay fault exists.

[Anonymous user]

Hello,

I have a Smart-UPS RT 5000 XL
SN: NS0935003966
Firmware Revision: 3
Manufacture Date: 08/24/2009
Apparent Power Rating: 5000 VA
Real Power Rating: 3500 W

UPS installed 1 month ago, and I have no problem with it. The main power source is generator that start 6 AM and turned off 8 PM everyday. So the battaries discharge everyday and charge again in the morning.
The problem i found today when i came to the office, is the front panel of UPS [X] is in red color and there was no outpout power and all equipments is off; I turned off the UPS and run it again and everything back to normal;

That happened 3 days ago, and I had to do the same thing, And no one stays to 8PM to monitor whats happening when the generator turned off and battary discharged.
Log attached.

Appreciate your help!

[BillP]

So this has happened twice since you installed it a month ago? Could you also post the data logs?

From just the data logs you provided, it at least looks like the UPS tried to go to bypass when it detected the problem, but it couldn't because there was no input power... So of course, it turned off.

Just to understand exactly how this is being used, are you saying the unit is on battery from 8pm till 6am every day? If that's the case, you're going to kill those batteries pretty quickly...

[Anonymous user · Accepted solution]

Hi Buzz,

Appreciate your response!
And hope you can help me out solving this issue.

It happend again this morning, and I think it gonna happen on a daily basis. Please advise from where I can get the data log?

Your diagnoses that a problem happened and the UPS tried to go to ByPass mode and it fail.
I don't understand the log 100%; When a generator turned off the UPS supposed to run on battary untill the battary approch to ran out and then send notifications and shut down itself?

If you please can you explain the sequance of [Input Power not exist, run on battary, UPS closed]; What is the ByPass mode and when It supposed to move to ByPass?

In the back panel the ByPass switch is adjusted to Online, is that right?

Regarding the battary discharge everyday; Ya the genrator turned off everyday at 8 PM, so the equipments consume the power for 2 hours before the UPS battary ran out. and then UPS suppose to turn itself off, when the generator run again in the morning, the UPS should start automatically.
It did like this the last 30 days, but the last few days started to show these errors and that affect the business.

I have no other options as we In Afghanistan, and there Is no power source but generators

Attached some pictures, for the log screen is that the data log.
Really appreciate your support.

[Anonymous user]

Hi,

I found the data log,

Showing the last 2 days.

Thanks!

[BillP]

I figure there's something wrong with the UPS. The backfeed relay fault error message is clearly not one of normal operation, so you may want to call tech support for your region to try some troubleshooting steps and get a replacement, if necessary.

When you see the fault LED on the front (I think you said you saw that once before?) were there any other lights on the front display? The battery bar graph should light up in a pattern to indicate what the fault is. Sometimes the fault reported on the display is different from the one reported in the NMC. If you can't remember, I would probably try to force the unit on battery so you can actually see what happens, though I would have your equipment plugged into something else for this test in case it drops again, of course. Tech support would probably suggest this, too.

I apologize for confusing you about bypass. The "online" position of the switch is normal operation, yes. However, when the UPS detects a fault that would cause it to turn off, it tries to automatically go to bypass first to keep your equipment powered. However, in this instance the fault is always appearing when there's no input power, so it can't go to bypass... it can't run on battery because of its fault and it can't go to bypass because your generator is off. Either way, your equipment will turn off.

The "bypass not in range" messages just mean that the input voltage or frequency isn't within normal operating range - in your case, the generator is turned off. Those are just warning messages to tell you it can't go to bypass if there's a fault. Normally, yes, the UPS is supposed to run on battery and then shutdown gracefully, just like it had been for the past 30 days before this issue occurred.

[Anonymous user]

Thanks Buzz,

- I'll try to contact support they may help.

- When I faced that error all LEDs was OFF except the Fault LED in Red colore was ON; UPS turnbed OFF and back ON; started normally! Battary Bar was off I think.

- Yesterday I spent sometime to see the UPS untill it shutdown. it spent lots of time while the remaining time is 0 minutes; but after sometime I found the [Online & Overload] emitted -> [On Battary & Fault] emitted -> [ByPass & replace battary] emitted. with a sequance. Maybe that light indication means out of battary power; When I turned the input voltage again On; the UPS started normally without any issues.

- Regarding the ByPass I imagine 3 cases A-"Internal Fault during the presence of input voltage the UPS tries to move to ByPass to power connected devices" B-"The switch moved manually to ByPass for a reason" C-"No input voltage existed and the UPS run on battary power UPS tries to go to ByPass which is make no sense"

- For case C; showing error "Input Voltage or Frequancy cannot support ByPass" is not logic;

- Something I notice; After the generator turned off; equpments keep consume the battary power untill battary ran out; at that moment when battary consumed and before UPS turned off; the fault happen "A backfeed relay fault exists" and UPS can't switch to ByPass as there is no Input voltage to switch to; In the morning when the input voltage come back; UPS starts BUT with the fault reported at night.

Untill I get help from support hope anyone can help me!

Appreciated!

[Anonymous user]

We have got a like incident, but with 2 UPSes in the same time.
There're 2 SURTD5000XLI, with 1 ext.bat.module SURT192XLBP both.
They work on the stable input power at the normal conditions.
3.09.2010 after a few black-outs (with durations from seconds to 1-2 minutes, properly changing to the battery power) at the almost same time they exposed 'A backfeed relay fault exists' and drop output power. See event.log (data.log records of 3.09 have been deleted as older than flash memory can host), I've downloaded them yesterday.
1st UPS - in chronologically accending order
03.09.2010 06:20:27 UPS: On battery power in response to distorted input. 0x0109
03.09.2010 06:32:43 UPS: An input voltage or frequency problem no longer prevents switching to bypass mode. 0x0210
03.09.2010 06:32:43 UPS: An input voltage or frequency problem no longer prevents switching to bypass mode. 0x0210
03.09.2010 08:58:18 UPS: Bypass not in range; low voltage. 0x020F
03.09.2010 08:58:18 UPS: On battery power in response to low input frequency. 0x0109
03.09.2010 08:59:33 UPS: An input voltage or frequency problem no longer prevents switching to bypass mode. 0x0210
03.09.2010 08:59:34 UPS: No longer on battery power. 0x010A
03.09.2010 09:00:03 UPS: Bypass not in range; low frequency. 0x020F
03.09.2010 09:00:03 UPS: On battery power in response to low input frequency. 0x0109

03.09.2010 09:00:04 UPS: A backfeed relay fault exists. 0x016B

03.09.2010 09:00:04 UPS: No longer on battery power. 0x010A

03.09.2010 09:00:04 UPS: The output power is turned off. 0x0114

03.09.2010 09:01:20 UPS: Bypass not in range; low frequency. 0x020F
03.09.2010 09:05:28 UPS: An input voltage or frequency problem no longer prevents switching to bypass mode. 0x0210

03.09.2010 09:42:47 UPS: A backfeed relay fault no longer exists. 0x016C

[Anonymous user]

03.09.2010 09:42:58 UPS: The output power is now turned on. 0x0113

03.09.2010 09:43:06 UPS: Started a self-test. 0x0137
03.09.2010 09:43:15 UPS: passed via internal operation a self-test. 0x0105

At the 09:40 -42 my colleague push the TEST button (start the both UPSes manually), and the next messages show the normal start...

2nd UPS
03.09.2010 03:41:07 UPS: No longer on battery power. 0x010A
03.09.2010 03:47:28 UPS: Bypass not in range; low voltage. 0x020F
03.09.2010 06:07:34 UPS: On battery power in response to rapid change of input. 0x0109

03.09.2010 03:47:31 UPS: No longer on battery power. 0x010A
03.09.2010 03:47:29 UPS: An input voltage or frequency problem no longer prevents switching to bypass mode. 0x0210
03.09.2010 03:47:28 UPS: On battery power in response to rapid change of input. 0x0109

03.09.2010 06:07:34 UPS: Bypass not in range; low voltage. 0x020F
03.09.2010 06:20:02 UPS: Bypass not in range; low voltage. 0x020F
03.09.2010 06:20:02 UPS: On battery power in response to rapid change of input. 0x0109
03.09.2010 06:32:18 UPS: An input voltage or frequency problem no longer prevents switching to bypass mode. 0x0210
03.09.2010 06:32:20 UPS: No longer on battery power. 0x010A
03.09.2010 08:58:17 UPS: Bypass not in range; low voltage. 0x020F
03.09.2010 08:58:17 UPS: On battery power in response to low input frequency. 0x0109
03.09.2010 08:59:33 UPS: An input voltage or frequency problem no longer prevents switching to bypass mode. 0x0210
03.09.2010 08:59:34 UPS: No longer on battery power. 0x010A
03.09.2010 09:00:03 UPS: Bypass not in range; low frequency. 0x020F
03.09.2010 09:00:03 UPS: On battery power in response to low input frequency. 0x0109
03.09.2010 09:00:03 UPS: No longer on battery power. 0x010A

03.09.2010 09:00:03 UPS: The output power is turned off. 0x0114

03.09.2010 09:00:04 UPS: A backfeed relay fault exists. 0x016B

03.09.2010 09:00:50 UPS: An input voltage or frequency problem no longer prevents switching to bypass mode. 0x0210
03.09.2010 09:01:20 UPS: Bypass not in range; low voltage. 0x020F
03.09.2010 09:05:27 UPS: An input voltage or frequency problem no longer prevents switching to bypass mode. 0x0210

03.09.2010 09:42:48 UPS: A backfeed relay fault no longer exists. 0x016C

03.09.2010 09:43:00 UPS: The output power is now turned on. 0x0113

03.09.2010 09:43:09 UPS: Started a self-test. 0x0137
03.09.2010 09:43:17 UPS: passed via internal operation a self-test. 0x0105


Both Smart's are powered from independent power lines.
Both supply the critical blade-station (in its dirrerent PSes), and we want do the redundancy so!

I think this is not the wanted behavior of devices. As a customer we want the UPSes sustain many black-outs and change to battery power every time as needed, don't dropping the load.