Has anyone used a Com'X 200 to connect to serial devices via Ethergate on ION meters?

[Anonymous user]

We have a site where we were going to use a landlords PME system to connect tenant meters with emailed reports in Excel going to the clients Bureau service.

At the last minute the Landlord decided we could use his metering LAN but would not connect the PME server onto his network to allow us to send emails.

We are trying to use a Com'X 200 connected to both the landlords and clients as a solution to this issue.

The landlords metering system is made up of a number of ION7550 RTUs with Ethernet cards with IEM3255 meters on com 1 using Ethergate port 7801. We have set the new client meters up on the landlords PME and can see everyone on it.

When we set up on the Com'X 200 using the Generic Modbus TCP/Serial gateway device option using port 502, we get a message in the log saying that the devices are reachable but the values for kW/kWh are all zero (which is incorrect).

Setting the port to 7801 we get a communications loss.

Has anyone used a Com'X 200 to connect to remote meters through an ION device using Ethergate?

Neil Dove

[Robert_Lee]

ION Ethergate sockets will only allow a single socket request to stay connected (which is probably being used by PME).  The Ethergate is a simple pass through (no protocol translation and more importantly there isn't any type of queuing system which would be necessary to handle multiple requests coming in on different connections).  Some devices have queuing capabilities for Modbus TCP traffic (like the EGX or one of the more recent advanced ION meters like ION7650) which also does the necessary Modbus TCP to Modbus RTU conversion.

Depending on the communication layout, you may be able to use the COM'X 200 (if it has the gateway functionality) to connect to the IEM3255 devices if they are wired directly to the COM'X and then just have PME contact the IEM devices through the COM'X instead of through the ION7550 RTUs.

[Anonymous user]

Rob,

Thanks for the response. All gateways I've used in the past have accepted multiple requestors.

As a work round, if I change the com set up to Modbus Master do you know if both PME and the Com'X 200 be able to access the ION7550RTU, or would we have the same issue?

Thanks

Neil

[Robert_Lee]

If you want to access the IEM devices from both the landlord's PME system and client's system, then I believe the IEM devices would need to be wired up to the Com'X exclusively.

Landlord's PME system would connect to the 7550RTUs using his own LAN and connect to the Com'X on port 502 as a Modbus Gateway to communicate to the IEM devices (instead of using port 7801 on the 7550 RTU).

Client's system would connect to the Com'X exclusively and they would probably need to wire a serial connection to one of the 7550 RTUs serial ports so it could talk to it as well (and then you would only be able to do Modbus, not ION).  This will restrict the type of information the client would be able to get from the RTUs.

[Anonymous user]

Rob,

Thanks for the information.

I don’t believe the ION7550RTUs are being used for anything other than as a gateway (we were not involved with the Landlords system.

If this is the case I will change them for EGX100s.

Many thanks for your support.

Neil Dove BEng (Hons)

VAR Services Ltd.

27 Main Road

Jacksdale

Nottingham

NG16 5JU

Tel 01773 603110

Fax 01773 603112

Mob 07899 996551

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[Anonymous user]

Rob,

Thanks for the email.

I have now been able to investigate the Landlords system.

It seem that all IEM3255s are connected via Ethergate on Com1. Com2 connects to a MBus/Modbus serial converter to pick up heat meters using Modbus Master.

I am thinking of installing EGX100s in place of the ION7550RTU com1 connection to the metering.

We now have to pick up some of the Heat Meters via the Com’X 200 which I think I can do direct from the ION7550RTU. I believe the ION7550RTU will accept multiple connections (4 from memory).

Does this sound feasible?

Neil Dove BEng (Hons)

VAR Services Ltd.

27 Main Road

Jacksdale

Nottingham

NG16 5JU

Tel 01773 603110

Fax 01773 603112

Mob 07899 996551

<mailto:neil.dove@varservices.co.uk> neil.dove@varservices.co.uk

<http://www.varservices.co.uk/> www.varservices.co.uk

Registered Office: 7 Brinsley Hill Jacksdale Nottingham NG16 5HT

Registered Number: 3153229 England

The information in this email is confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us immediately. You should not copy this e-mail or its contents or use it for any purpose nor disclose its contents to any other person unless authorised to do so.

Although this email and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus, or any other defect which might affect any computer or IT system into which they are received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that they are virus free and no responsibility is accepted by us for any loss or damage arising in any way from receipt or use thereof

[Robert_Lee]

It sounds like the 7550RTU is only being used as a gateway and a Modbus Master for some heat meters, both functions that can be also supported by the Com'X.  The difference however is that the 7550RTU will only allow a single connection to either of its serial gateways (while you can have a total of 4 TCP connections to the 7550 RTU, only IP Port 7700 will allow more than a single concurrent connection so the only device more than 1 system could talk to is the 7550 RTU itself).  Alternatively you could Modbus Master the IEM devices as well but that might restrict what information you can get to those devices and you might not be able to master that many of the meters in total.

Since all these useful devices communicate Modbus (only the RTU communicates ION and all you're really doing there is Modbus Mastering), it will probably be better to swap out the RTU for the Com'X which could both master the heat meters and do the IEM devices and still allow multiple connections.  If there were ION meters involved, then the Com'X would only be able to do Modbus so another alternative would have to be considered.

I think an EGX would work as well as the Com'X but both systems would have to pull the data from all the devices (PME is designed to do this but you don't mention what is the client's system).  The Com'X I think can also push data but its best to talk to the Com'X experts to know what that device capabilities are and if that lines up with what the client needs.

[sesa44646]

Hey Neil - moving this to the Gateways community, as the Com'X is part of the offer portfolio here. Hopefully you will get a few more opinions by having it in the community vs. in your personal discussions.

[Anonymous user]

Rob,

Thanks again.

We have meters on 3 floors. Attached current and proposed layout.

Think I need to add a couple of EGX100s on other floors where we have clients meters to take the place of the ION7550RTUs Ethergate/IEM3255 (Com 1) function and on one floor wire the IEMs to the Com'X 200 Modbus serial port.

Then get data the heat meters directly from the ION7550RTUs on 7700.

Does this look a sensible solution?

(Proposed system to follow)

Neil

[Anonymous user]

Rob,

Proposed system schematic

Neil

[Yu_Diao]

Just a FYI, with the lastest FW, 7550RTU does support modbus gateway on TCP port 502, and it can accomendate up to 32 connections, it could do whatever an EGX100 can. In your drawing above, keep Com2 as "MB Master" and chagne Com1 to "Modbus Gateway". For new installation, you can surely go with EGXs considering the difference in cost.

[Robert_Lee]

I believe the Com'X can only communicate using Modbus (TCP or RTU) so they will be connecting to the ION RTUs using port 502 (not 7700).  This means you'll need to configure each of the RTUs Modbus Slave modules to allow the Com'X access to the heat meter information (and any logging will have to be done by the Com'X and won't be able to access the on-board logs of the RTU).

I assume you plan to have the Com'X gather all the data for all of the client's meters and have it push that data out to the client's system (since the landlord isn't going to provide access to their LAN).  Assuming the Com'X can handle the total number of meters, I don't see any issues with your proposal (assuming the client only wants to view data and not do any type of configuration/control).

[Anonymous user]

Hi Rob,

Yes. Plan is to use the Com’X 200 as a gateway on floor 3 for the Landlords meters on the Struxureware 7.0.1 also using it’s Modbus Gateway functionality.

Com’X 200 is to push clients data to a third party.

Struggling to find the maximum number of devices a Com’X 200 can support. RS485 ports should be able to cope with the number of devices on that floor. The total no of devices the client has is 15 off IEM3255s and round 10 heat meters.

Neil

[Anonymous user]

Still having problems with this one.

I have re-configured the installation such that the serial port of the Com’X 200 is connected to the IEM3255 meters and the ION7550RTU (com2).

I have set up a Modbus Slave module in the ION7550RTU to take the values from the heat meters which are connected to the ION7500RTU’s com1 (Modbus Master).

I am having issues with any custom quantity I have set up on the Com’X 200; both for the heat meters and a water meter which is connected via a pulse to the kitchen supplies IEM3255.

Attached is a Powerpoint document with screenshots of the set up.

Slides 1 to 6 – ION7550RTU  Heat meter set up

Slides 7 to 11 – IEM3255 water meter (register 3558)

I have tried various variations of the register set up, big/little endian, adding one, zero or minus one to the register number but I still get the same result.

Any ideas would be appreciated!

[Robert_Lee]

Hi Neil,

Looking at the powerpoint, it seems that the Com'X is only able to communicate to the devices connected to its own network segment shown on slide 7.  I can't see how the TCP connections are configured for the Com'X which is how I assume the other floor devices are configured for the Com'X to communicate to those devices.  This may indicate some type of network IP port access issue between floors that would prevent the Com'X from accessing the other floors if it can't communicate (you could take a laptop to plug into the router by the Com'X and see if you can connect to the other floor RTUs or EGXs and retrieve data).

Also I noticed that the RTU's are configured to communicate on Com1 to the heat meters using only 1 stop bit (8N1) while the Com'X is configured to communicate on its serial connection using 2 stop bits instead.  I would recommend both to use the same format just in case you decide in the future to switch devices to the other RS-485 bus.

[Anonymous user]

Rob,

Thanks for all your help. I believe that the issue is with the Com'X 200 not liking custom devices. I created one based on the IEM3255 for active energy parameter only and set exactly as the "donor" device and still get the yellow triangle for the value.

We had to update the firmware on the Com'X 200 from a very early version when we purchased the unit to allow custom quantities/devices, so I wonder if this is the issue.

Neil

[Anonymous user]

Hello Neil

Sorry not having seen your issue before.

I use and modify Custom models every days on my Com'X 200. It works well, anyway there are some tricks to know.

1) Robert is right, you must have the right format : if the Com'X 200 modbus port is configured as 2 stop bit, the slave miust use the 2 stop bit format

2) Beware that when using the custom editor you must enter "Address", and not "Register". At the origin of Modbicon story the register was used by the PLC programmer, and it started from 1, While the modbus address, was used by the Modbus protocol and it started from 0.

In many PLC or modbus slave documentation, the Register W1 (also sometime called 40001) was mapped at the modbus address 0.

3) From version 1.3.5, when you have a communication error (yellow sign), if you let the mouse on this signal you should get a tip giving you more details about the communication issue  (eg : the slave did not answer <> the slave answered with error code "X", ...)

     I hope this will help you

     Regards

     Jef

[Anonymous user]

Hi Jef,

Going a little mad with this one.

I had convinced myself that something must have happened during the firmware upgrade to v1.3.5 (which took two steps), so I now have another Com'x 200 that was at this version out of the box. However I notice that from the logs it appears this too has had the firmware upgraded twice.

I have set up a PM750 to test and then created a custom Modbus_PM750 device type, based on it without changing anything in the register structure, and I get the same result - yellow triangle with the message "An unexpected error occurred" and if I replace with the standard PM750 I get no errors and the values on the meter on the Com'X200.

I noticed an old custom device type thread in 2013 where it stated that you can use the same Modbus address for more than one device on the Com'X200 so I tried that as well.

I have also just found you tutorial on editing the Micrologic to include additional register and cannot see anything I have been missing.

I can only assume that either I'm being really stupid (as this appears so easy and I have been doing this since SMS v3 days) or that there is an issue with the firmware upgrades on both devices.

Any thoughts again would be appreciated.

Neil

[Anonymous user · Accepted solution]

We have found the same behavior yesterday with Jun Lin (China)

1) This is a bug that occurs in version 1.3.5 when you use Internet Explorer as Web browser

If you use "Internet Explorer" as Web browser, the custom models that you create or modify are bugged.

(the devices that use this model display an invalid value sign and a message "an unexpected error occurred")

If you use "Chrome" as Web browser, the custom models that you create or modify are correct.

2) You can repair those bugged models, by using "Chrome" as browser

In version 1.3.5, If you modify a bad custom modem (created by IE) with another browser, the action  of the "Save" button will fix the model.

For example,  If you have a bad model created with IE,you can

connect to the Com'X using "Chrome" browser,

1. open the model in the custom library editor,
2. change the "Endianness" setting,
3. save the model,
4. change again the "Endianness" setting (in order to retrieve the correct value), and
5. save the model

All the devices that use this model will be automatically repaired.

  ==> Temporarily, I suggest also to use Chrome as browser.

3) This bug has been fixed in version 1.4

In version 1.4, the custom modem will work whatever the browser you use,

4) How to check if your model is correct or not

When you export your custom model, you will get a zip file that contains

• a json file (used  by the web page to display the device)
• a XML file (used by the Com'X Firmware to read the modbus data)

Open the xml file and look at the "Frames" and "Path" lines, if there is a xlmlns="" attribute, your file is bugged. (this attribute disables the first xml name space)

You can repair it :

• either by using chrome (see above)
• or by removing those attributes, saving the xml file, zip again the json and the xml, and import it, and use the "replace" feature.

     Sorry for this bug, I hope this page will help you

  Jef

[Anonymous user]

Jef,

Thanks.

That works fine. Will use Chrome from now on.

Again,

many thanks for you help