H10 power conditioner - extreme fluctuations

[Anonymous user]

Just picked up this unit on clearance, great deal. 🙂

I haven't been able to find out if it is a true pure sine-wave unit (like the S series units that come with battery backup)

Some other observations and questions:

At initial power up (nothing connected) "Line OK" was not lit and "Line Trim" was.
After setting the AVR range to "normal", "Line OK" became lit and "Line Trim" went out.
("wiring ok" is lit)

-I'm geussing that setting the AVR range activated, for lack of a better term, the tolerance range and the input is not outside of that range, resulting in the change of status indicated by the "Line OK" and "Line Trim" lights.

Previous to using this unit I had a Tripp-Lite UPS with LED readout that showed the incoming voltage fluctuating between 116v and 122v, typically, sometimes going as high as 125-126v.
I also have tested the output voltage of the "digital filter" outputs of the H10 which showed minor fluctuation of less than .5v, about 123.4 volts. (using an old micronta digital multimeter)

So I infer from this that the H10 is doing it's trim/boost even though the indicator lights don't show it, although I would have expected the output to be 120v +\- not 123v +\-.

-Am I correct in this conclusion?
-And what accounts for the output being 123v?

Before having connected anything to it, I powered it fully down (not standby) and unplugged it to see if I could replicate the original state to see if the unit fluctuated between trim and boost without the AVR range/tolerance being set, but no go. The narrow range I set remained.

-Is there a hot-key sequence or other way of clearing the settings/returning it to factory/as I received it state so I can observe the trim indicator as it first behaved?

Message was edited by: Linus

Message was edited by: Linus

[Anonymous user]

OK, so this unit just cut all output power!!
The red light was flashing at the 140v range indicator.
And it just now returned to normal state, providing power....

oh boy, any input?
140 volts?

Recently (within the year) hydro ran new lines up the main st. I live on, correcting low voltage condition previously. Fluctuations seem to be the same excepting:
Over the last couple of weeks there have been surges causing lights to brighten noticeably, the Tripp-Lite I never saw indicate anything above 126v or so. It is not connected at the moment.
I also have an APC Back-UPS XS 1200 (not connected to the H10) which beeped at the moment the H10 cut power, but only for a moment, and for longer periods during the recent episodes of surges.

Input greatly appreciated right now!
Thanks...

[BillP]

Hi Linus,

The H10 outputs a step approximated sine wave. The AVR Range adjustments have the following values:
• Narrow AVR Range: 102-132 Volts,
Regulates to: 120 Volts +/- 5% (114V-126V)
• Normal AVR Range: 97-139 Volts,
Regulates to: 120 Volts +/- 10% (108V-132V)
• Wide AVR Range: 92-145 Volts,
Regulates to: 120 Volts +/- 15% (102-138)

I believe that it ships with the Narrow AVR Range by default so if the voltage went over 126 the unit would have strated to trim the voltage. If you then adjusted it to one of the other ranges and the voltage was within its range then the trim would have gone off. It sounds like this is what happened with your setup. Even on the Narrow Range the 123V that you were seeing would be right since it would not engage the boost or tirm until the voltage was outside the 114V-126V range.

As for the unit cutting output power that is odd. It sounds like the voltage went over the range the unit is set for which should have caused it to go to battery. The only reasons it should have cut power would be either the battery was weak and couldn't support the load or the unit was overloaded. What was the load percentage on the unit when this happened? How long had the battery been connected and charging before this happened? If you unplug the H10 from the wall does it switch to battery or drop the load? If it drops you may want to call tech support to have them troubleshoot it with you. Tech support is free and the number is (800) 890-4272.

If I missed any of your questions let me know.

[Anonymous user]

Hi PowerMan,

The load on the unit hasn't gone above 20% by the indicator light.
I thought that the H10 didn't have battery backup,...

I have a post almost ready as there has been further extreme behaviour, but atm I have to run

Thanks for the reply and I'll post again!

[BillP]

you are right. the H10 does not have battery backup and does NOT output a step approximated sinewave. it is just a power conditioner and only boosts or trims the voltage accordingly so it is just passing through the pure sinewave from utility power, while making the necessary voltage adjustments.

[Anonymous user]

Hi, i picKed a winna , I thought that was probably the case, at any rate back to the real problem. This is a long post but I want to be sure of describing the situation as completely as possible.


My apologies for the delay in answering, I've been busy dealing with a lot of things.

At the time of my initial post the H10 had been operating without issue since the middle of the previous day, indicating no problem (outside of the initial trim indication) other than that it was filtering.
After it cut all output at the time of my first post, it resumed output with no indication of any problem, until late that evening , and what problems there were. I wish I had a video of it!

I'm also concerned with the difference in readings for the input line voltage I am seeing between the H10, the TrippLite, and my voltmeter.
When the unit is showing the green, then amber, then red lights, at the 120v, 130v, and 140v lights respectively, this is indicating input voltage of those ranges correct?

The only voltages I saw displayed by the TrippLite were between 120 and 124, stable for a few seconds at best, typically 122/123
Over the period I have had the TrippLite (about a year) the voltage swings by about 4 volts, some days as low as 116 to 120, other days 122 to 126.
I have since measured the voltage at the wall outlet using my multi-meter, and have found voltages consistant with what the Tripplite shows.
These measurements differ from the readings I took at the output side of the H10 which gave the 123v reading which fluctuated only by a fraction of a volt.
I have checked all wall outlets with a Leviton circuit tester, the type that shows crossed or open wires - all good
At no time did either of my UPS's complain as they have done in the last few weeks. During the extreme behaviour of that evening I turned off everything (ups's air conditioning, computers, av equipment) except lights and a fan. It had no effect I could see.

This is some of the behaviour the H10 exhibited that evening.

- Rapid fluctuation between "line ok" (resumption of power supply) and complete cutting of power.
- steady state of simultanious flashing of 90v and 140v lights
- steady state of 140v light
- steady alternating between line boost and line trim

- on the primary circuit in question the "wiring ok" light was constantly and steadily lit, (as was the "filtering" light)
- on other circuits the "wiring ok" light would flash rapidly, very rapidly, and the unit would exhibit the behaviour I attempt to describe above
- the periods of all output cut could be as long as 10-15 minutes
- at times the unit would remain stable in an 'all ok' state for a while, no more than 5-10 minutes

-------------------
It is my understanding that the H10 will cut output if the input values are outside a "safe" range.
Is that correct, and if so, is that affected by the narrow, normal, and wide range settings?

--------------------

Could this be caused by:

1. the H10 itself being faulty?
2. a faulty device somewhere in my unit (my side of my meter)?
3. a "smart meter"? (installed last year)
4. I live in an old house with upgraded wiring (seperate meters and panels for each unit) but my unit has some common wiring, could something in one of the other units be responsible for introducing noise/load capable of causing these symptoms? (perhaps that home networking system that works over building wiring?)
5. an overloaded circuit?
6. utility power? - as previously stated I am on a main road along which a new line was installed last year, new polls, lines, transformers, lines to the houses, the whole nine yards. I wouldn't have thought they'd be allowing 140 volts along it.
7. bad grounding?

Message was edited by: Linus

[Anonymous user]

I should add that I cannot confirm anything that the neighbors may or may not be doing.

[voidstar_apc]

Some of our customers have found their UPS reacting to disturbances soon after a smart meter is installed. Their smart meters evidently communicate to the power company by disrupting the voltage waveform. The disturbances on each line cycle are short enough that devices on the line won't be affected, but a UPS monitoring the line will detect and react to it.

It's hard to say whether that's the cause without knowing how the smart meter communicates and without seeing the disturbances on an oscilloscope.

[Anonymous user]

So the smart meter may be responsible for some of this, however the installation of the smart meter pre-dates the recent behaviour of my UPS's, so there is more going on I would have to assume.

1. Could someone confirm the questions I have about the H10, ie:

- When the unit is showing the green, then amber, then red lights, at the 120v, 130v, and 140v lights respectively, this is indicating input voltage of those ranges correct?
- It is my understanding that the H10 will cut output if the input values are outside a "safe" range.

Is that correct, and if so, is that affected by the narrow, normal, and wide range settings?


2. Also what could account for the discrepancies between the voltage readings I am seeing?

("OK, so this unit just cut all output power!!
- The red light was flashing at the 140v range indicator"
The H10 also was steady at 130v on a later occassion, dropping to 120v with and without trim indication)
- Over the period I have had the TrippLite (about a year) the voltage swings by about 4 volts, some days as low as 116 to 120, other days 122 to 126.
- I have since measured the voltage at the wall outlet using my multi-meter, and have found voltages consistant with what the Tripplite shows.
EDIT:
These measurements differ from the readings I took at the output side of the H10 which gave the 123v reading (fluctuating only by a fraction of a volt) and by the 130v and 140v indicator lights


3. There is a very strong possibility that one or other or both of the neighbors are taking advantage of the common wiring, at the very least...
Could the extreme behaviour I outlined be caused by something they are doing?


Unfortuneately I no longer have access to an oscilloscope. If someone could suggest an inexpensive one I may be able to make a purchase and check it out.
I have the assistance of an electronics and A/V professional as well, though he is not an engineer.

Message was edited by: Linus, for clarity

Message was edited by: Linus

[Anonymous user · Accepted solution]

My main issues are the discrepencies in voltage readings, and when the H10 cuts output and if the range settings affect this.

I'm considering putting an old Smart-UPS after the H10 so I can continue using it and see what happens, but I will lose the digital display of the TrippLite, so I need to be clear on these points. If the 130 and 140 volt readings (as apposed to 116 to 126 of the other devices) of the H10 can't be accounted for by the design, function, or sensitivity of it then I'll need to send it in to be checked out. I'd rather not do that unnecessarily.

Appreciate your patience,
Linus