Back-UPS LS 700 sez "Battery Disconnected" = NOT!

[Anonymous user]

I have two Back-UPS 700 LS models.

Each one required a battery replacement.

I purchased and tried TWO fully charged 12v 7.2ah batteries in each UPS.

Each UPS goes through it’s self-test, then illuminates the red battery replacement light & chirps.

I hooked each UPS to a computer via a know-good USB cable.
I installed the latest Powerchute Personal edition. I clicked on the battery-replaced icon to inform the Powerchute Personal Edition that I had indeed, replaced the battery.

The battery replacement light on the Back-UPS 700 LS goes out for about a minute then,
The monitoring software claims the battery is disconnected, the UPS illuminates the red battery replacement light & chirps constantly.
Then the monitoring software will magically find the battery, the battery replacement light on the Back-UPS 700 LS goes out for about a minute, only to claim it’s disconnected once again!!

Since my batteries are in new-excellent-charged shape, I’m beginning to wonder if these Back-UPS 700 LS models have a circuit life that equals the first battery life?

[Anonymous user]

I have two Back-UPS 700 LS models.

Each one required a battery replacement.

I purchased and tried TWO fully charged 12v 7.2ah batteries in each UPS.

Each UPS goes through it’s self-test, then illuminates the red battery replacement light & chirps.

I hooked each UPS to a computer via a know-good USB cable.
I installed the latest Powerchute Personal edition. I clicked on the battery-replaced icon to inform the Powerchute Personal Edition that I had indeed, replaced the battery.

The battery replacement light on the Back-UPS 700 LS goes out for about a minute then,
The monitoring software claims the battery is disconnected, the UPS illuminates the red battery replacement light & chirps constantly.
Then the monitoring software will magically find the battery, the battery replacement light on the Back-UPS 700 LS goes out for about a minute, only to claim it’s disconnected once again!!

Since my batteries are in new-excellent-charged shape, I’m beginning to wonder if these Back-UPS 700 LS models have a circuit life that equals the first battery life?

[Anonymous user]

Option 2 doesn't make any sense. If the battery measures 12 volts, then the charging circuit will see 12 volts. It has no way of measuring the amp-hrs of the new battery w/o performing an extended run-down test. Volts are volts.

I'd go with option 1.

[TheNotoriousKMP_apc]

Hello,

If the problem persists with the battery disconnected, and it is physically connected, then I would recommend calling into APC Technical Support and obtaining a replacement. It is very possible that there has been an electrical failure within the UPS that will not allow it to recognize the battery.

[Anonymous user]

Hello,

What are the serial numbers off of the two units? Have you disconnected and reconnected the internal battery leads? Made 100% sure the red and black contacts are securely connected? What model battery did you purchase for the units?

Thanks.

[Anonymous user]

Serial numbers of the Back-UPS LS 700(s)
PB0438336297
PB0438336255

Of course the leads are connected correctly, as I've exhausted the possiblities of a bad battery by switching batteries between units!

The batteries are MK Battery ES7-12, as I said, 12v 7.2ah batteries.

[Anonymous user]

While I concede the replacement battery does not have the capacity of the original, that is not an acceptable reason for the failure of the UPS to function. The battery AH rating is a capacity rating, however the battery puts out the required voltage. All that should happen is that I realize a little less runtime.

No, I didn't order a APC branded RBC17 battery, due to the fact that shipping is a deal breaker. I've got a retailer in town that sells batteries at a reasonable price. I've used this same source for other APC UPS batteries before. Right now, behind me is a Smart-UPS 1000 with batteries from the same retailer. If functions fine.

Sorry gentlemen, we need to look deeper into this. The UPS is saying the battery is disconnected not that the capacity or runtime is low.

[Anonymous user]

Does the UPS power up? Can you power it up on AC and then pull the input power plug? What happens?

The only explanations that I can think of are the following:

1) The UPS has had some malfuntion in its internal circuitry, and cannot see the battery.

2) The charging circuit does not recognize the lower Amp/hr battery.

3) The leads are not secure, or not physically making contact.

If the UPS passes the test above, then option 2 would make sense. It seems like you've ruled out option 3 by rechecking the connections. If it is option 1, then it sounds like the units would need to be replaced.

Thanks.

[Anonymous user]

Who did you get the battery from? Batteries are like food. If you get stale ones, they're no good. It sounds like you got a heavily sulfated battery. Measure the voltage across the battery as you operate the UPS. If it goes to "change battery", the voltage is collapsing as the UPS place a load.

A stale battery can certainly cause the unit to fail the self-test and beep.

[Anonymous user]

I am also having the same problem. I ordered 10 Backups LS 700 and about half show a replacement battery light. Then I purchased replacement batteries directly from APC. Unfortunately that did not work. The batteries are still showing a replacement battery light. You are not alone.

[Anonymous user]

If this is an internal component failure, I would assume that the same problem occurs with the original battery. Have you tried putting the old battery back in and seeing if the same message is displayed. Obviously you wouldn't want to leave the battery in since its bad, but the worst that should happen is that the replace battery light should come on, not the battery is disconnected.

[Anonymous user]

(I don't work for APC, but I used to refurb UPSs)
I too disagree with Grenade and Sgt.Slaughter's diagnosis.

The same physical dimension batteries are available in 7.0, 7.2, 7.5, 8.0 and up to 9.0 Ah and they're indeed compatible as long as you have the proper terminal or use terminal adapters(available in F1 and F2). If the wire are secure, you're fine. You're absolutely right the difference will be runtime. Even if you have the APCs original 9.0Ah battery, it won't be 9.0Ah for the rest of its life. Capacity degrade over life.

UPS units can fail, but it's not very common compared to batteries and it's unlikely two units failed at once. I understand you had good luck with batteries from the same dealer, but let's not overlook the potential. You maybe buying food from grocery store and it's been fresh before. That doesn't mean you can't get hit with a batch of bad food.

Batteries are like food. Lead acid batteries don't age well. They need to be recharged about every six months starting with when they leave the factory. Depending on temperature, after about a year or two, lead batteries become paperweights unless they've been topped off semi-annually. A lot of UPSs end up being surplus'd/scrapped after a battery failure from neglect or age, often by the pallet load.

It's rather unlikely the failure happened to both units at once, but if both batteries sat around too long since manufactured, then both batteries being bad is likely. Take it back and ask for a load test on both batteries before blaming your UPS.

If they both pass the test, maybe you have a problem with the UPS.

[Anonymous user]

Batteries are like food. Lead acid batteries don't age well. They need to be recharged about every six
months starting with when they leave the factory.

So, what's the best way to make sure you're getting "fresh" replacement batteries?

[TheNotoriousKMP_apc]

The difference in time between the Battery being manufactured and it being in your hands is approximately 6 weeks. Sometimes it is a little less, sometimes barely more. Therefore, no damage is done to the charging capabilities of the battery, and it is still considered brand new.

[Anonymous user]

scifiguy wrote:

Batteries are like food. Lead acid batteries don't age well. They need to be recharged about every six
months starting with when they leave the factory.

So, what's the best way to make sure you're getting "fresh" replacement batteries?

Order what you need and only what you need directly from APC. What Notorious K only represent the APC supply chain. Some batteries we got in August are dated Feb 07. If you're getting them from third party suppliers, make sure you check the data code on each battery and ensure they're no more than 6 months old. Most batteries are made in China and unless you order directly from a supplier who buys from factory and have very fast rotation, they're bound to sit around in warehouse for sometime before getting to your hand.

Don't order extras as maintenance spare unless you know you'll need it within a few months.

I've even come across new in box APC UPSs that are dead out of box, because they sat around too long in the warehouse or on store shelves.

[Anonymous user]

I too, experienced the same problem with my Back-UPS LS 700. It would chirp twice and a pop-up would say the battery was disconnected, then another notice that it had been reconnected!
After replacing the battery, the problem persisted. I checked the connectors and re-crimped the female connectors and reconnected them. Still the problem persisted.
Finally, I cut away the plastic insulators from the APC leads and physically soldered the leads to the battery connectors. The problem lessened, now instead of twenty times in an hour, it has been only about once a day.
It seems most the the reports here involved fairly old APC units. It may be that the connections on the circuit board end are degraded. This unit is several years old, I have replaced the battery twice now.
So, the problem didn't go away, but it is less of a problem now!

Message was edited by: Zuki

[Anonymous user]

My previous post was abbreviated, here it is again.

I too, experienced the same problem with my Back-UPS LS 700. It would chirp twice and a pop-up would say the battery was disconnected, then another notice that it had been reconnected!
After replacing the battery, the problem persisted. I checked the connectors and re-crimped the female connectors and reconnected them. Still the problem persisted.
Finally, I cut away the plastic insulators from the APC leads and physically soldered the leads to the battery connectors. The problem lessened, now instead of twenty times in an hour, it has been only about once a day.
It seems most the the reports here involved fairly old APC units. It may be that the connections on the circuit board end are degraded. This unit is several years old, I have replaced the battery twice now.
So, the problem didn't go away, but it is less of a problem now!

[Anonymous user]

I too, experienced the same problem with my Back-UPS LS 700. It would chirp twice and a pop-up would say the battery was disconnected, then another notice that it had been reconnected!
After replacing the battery, the problem persisted. I checked the connectors and re-crimped the female connectors and reconnected them. Still the problem persisted.
Finally, I cut away the plastic insulators from the APC leads and physically soldered the leads to the battery connectors. The problem lessened, now instead of twenty times in an hour, it has been only about once a day.
It seems most the the reports here involved fairly old APC units. It may be that the connections on the circuit board end are degraded. This unit is several years old, I have replaced the battery twice now.
So, the problem didn't go away, but it is less of a problem now!

[BillP]

unfortunately it is a fault with the UPS but it will still function if you pull the plug from the wall. it is a cosmetic problem when indeed the battery is actually connected. i know nobody wants to deal with the pop up messages though in the software and the chirping noise.

[Anonymous user]

I have a lot of 700-1200VA UPS's in use.

Some things I have found.

1) They like being loaded really lightly. This will make a big difference in how long they live
2) They all seem to have a downward spiral with the battery. The first one will last X, the second one will last X/2 etc.
3) In general, the "Bad" battries do not seem to be all that bad. The UPS seems to get more and more picky as it ages.

Two cases in point. I have a 700 under my desk that runs a little black box HP PC and an LCD monitor. The software shows a load of 94 watts with the LCD
on. My first battery lasted me over 4 years, before it started failing it's self test. The replacement lasted perhaps one year. Now, regardless of what I put in for
a battery it gives me the "batery disconnected" error message.

The second case is a similer UPS connected to a big developer PC with 2 CPU's, lots of memory and 15K SCSI hard disks. I think that clocks in at over 300W with the monitor on. The same battery on that one lasted about a year. The second one shut it up for a few months.

I have a pile of these things, all with similar issues.

The sad thing is that it seems like the expensive parts, the big switching elements and the transofrmer are fine. Some little part in the charging or batery voltage monitoring circuit is cooked, rendering these useless.

Might be time to consider switching brands. I have a pile of legendary reliabiulity waiting for the scrapyard.

[Anonymous user]

This is interesting. There is at least one other thread on this subject. Exact same problem and now I am the third with the problem.
Several months my LS 700 started chirping twice, and displayed the battery disconnect message. This was a very random occurrance. The light on the unit never changed from green. I would open PowerChute and check the status which was reported to be totatlly correct. After a week of so of this I ran a manual self-test which passed. About a week later I ran another self-test which failed so I ordered a replacement battery, RBC17, from APC. Several days after installing the new battery the problem started again. I disconnected the USB cable and the random beeps ceased. I deleted the driver in Device Manager, disconnected the unit, re-started the computer and reconnected the USB cable. The unit was recognized and the driver was reinstalled. The problem still occurs.

This unit was purchased in 2002. I have replaced the battery twice.

I am running Vista Ultimate on a Gateway Pentium 4, 2.0 GHz, 1 GB ram, PowerChute version 2.1.1.

Like another commented, I am beginning to think that there is a component in the unit with a very finite life which is now failing.

[Anonymous user]

Funny, about two months ago I started to receive regular "two chirp" errors on my LS 700. I replaced the battery with APC batteriy and went through the same issue with "two chirps," and "battery not connected" warnings from the software... I got tired of the constant popups so I uninstalled the software and pulled the USB plug from the unit (I never run my computer unattended anyway).

I tested the unit by unplugging it from the wall with my systems at full load and it ran just fine... Battery must have been connected.

---

If I think back, the first hint of a problem was actually in early December of '07, when I received a single error message from PowerChute - which prompted a system check, software reinstall, and battery reseating...

Message was edited by: gamedeveloper

Message was edited by: gamedeveloper

[Anonymous user]

Add me to the list. Same exact problem. I purchased an LS 700 in May '06. It recently started with the replace battery light flashing 8 times, and two chirps at random times. Sometimes happening very frequently, other times hours between events. Replaced the battery with the recommended model RBC17. Same problem. The unit passes all the self-tests. I've never used the PowerChute software, but went ahead and installed it today to see if I could learn more. Nope - just the "battery is disconnected" message. Also not load dependent...it does the same thing with nothing plugged into it. I've checked and reconnected the battery several times just to be sure.

[Anonymous user]

I am a Mac OSX user and was successful with silencing the chirp by using the APC-Powerchute Personal software via USB from a Windows PC laptop running -Windows/Vista ( though I am quite sure any USB computer running a version of Windows would work. 5 minute job... BAM !

APC-Powerchute does not support the OSX platform. The APCAGENT program will monitor power issues within the Backup unit, but as far as I can tell, it will not adjust or modify settings within the unit.

KUDOS and THANKS !!! to the folks that have eluded in their posts.... that by running PowerChute via USB from a Windows PC to the APC unit will allow you to adjust the internal settings.

You saved me... and have made our landfills a better place.

[BillP]

there is a communication problem with the UPS based on what you're saying. i have seen this before. you can configure native OS support with XP via [these instructions|http://nam-en.apc.com/cgi-bin/nam_en.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=2497] but other than that, the UPS would need to be replaced even though it works fine. there is no way to fix this type of communication problem.

[Anonymous user]

I am having the same problems described in this thread, albeit with a newly-purchased refurb LS 500 with a new battery, connected to a PC running XP SP3:

Two notifications appear alternating every few minutes, when PowerChute Personal Edition is installed:

The first is a popup window with the APC logo:

"The battery in your battery backup is disconnected. The unit
will not be able to support your system in the event of a
power problem until you connect your battery. See user's manual for details."

This if followed a few seconds later by a taskbar notification:

"Battery reconnected in battery backup.
The battery is now securely in place in your APC unit."

The UPS passes the self test in PowerChute, and status appears to be normal. Tried connecting both through a powered UPS hub, and directly to the PC without any difference. Have tried connecting the UPS to a different PC (also running XP SP3), and the symptoms still occur when PowerChute is installed.

Only thing that works is uninstalling PowerChute Personal Edition. I have the Business Edition on a different PC (which has a Smart-UPS 750 XL), but the LS 500 isn't supported by the Business Edition. So I'm running without any version of PowerChute, and just relying on Windows XP to manage the UPS.

My best guess has been that some recent change Microsoft introduced broke how PowerChute works (since it hasn't been updated for XP since 2005), or else there's a communications problem with the UPS. The battery backup still seems to work, but I have no idea whether the UPS will shut the PC down gracefully in the event of a long power failure.

Any experience with how well the UPS works managed by Windows without PowerChute in this situation?

Thanks.

[Anonymous user · Accepted solution]

I am also having this problem. It just started a few days ago on one of the 11 Back-UPS LS-700 units that we have. We have replaced batteries several times and have never seen this effect before. None of the units have had batteries fail in less than 3 years. 9 are running PCs with Windows XP Pro and 2 are running SME Linux. Just replaced the battery and it made no difference.

I was wondering if anyone has any new ideas on the cure. As an EE, I find it hard to believe that a integrated circuit in the unit has drifted out of spec and that's why it's complaining. The alarm says the battery is disconnected - that means it thinks the voltage is 0V. The unit is at least 5 years old so it's not a case of "tin whiskers" (read what the EU RoHS regulation has done to electronics reliability at our website: www.ldfcoatings.com).

Will APC repair the unit? Have you replaced it with a better behaving model and if so what is it?

Another issue has been how the LS-700 units behave on our Honda 6500 backup generator. A few of them don't like it (I was advised to get the LS-700 by a APC engineer I know - he said they would be "generator friendly"). The AC waveform is decent enough (I checked it with an oscilloscope). They complain (beeping and switching on and off). They are all set on the lowest sensitivity setting). We are getting a much bigger generator (Generac 36KW) so I'm hoping that cures them from complaining.

Is there a better Windows software than PowerChute to fix this disconnect/reconnect problem?

[Anonymous user]

I have run into this "prematurely bad" battery issue for a replacement battery. In my case, mostly on Smart-UPS's.

If you are having that problem, it can be because the 'brain' of the UPS is still remembering the last bad-battery data. Sometimes you can address this by either:

A) "braindead" the UPS by removing any load, turning it off via front-panel switch, take the battery out, then press the "On" button for 5 seconds.
B) Do a run-time calibration to reset the electronics calibration for the installed battery.

Run-time calibration steps are usually outlined in the product documentation (or can search the knowledgebase here), and here are links to the "braindead" procedure from APC:

BackUPS:
http://emea-en.apc.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/9603

SmartUPS:
http://nam-en.apc.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/9322/kw/braindead/

HTH

[Anonymous user]

RE: Battery dating and "Freshness":

Most of the time, the types of batteries made for UPS's will have a date code stamped on them - many times this is hot-melted into the battery casing. This sometimes takes the form YYMM or YYJD where YY is the last two digits of the year ( "03" = 2003) ... and then MM is the month.

The Panasonic cells I buy to refurb APC ups's come with a little paper quality control sheet that states when they were charged. You must recharge evry six months after this date if they go unused.

With APC RBC's I have sometimes seen a "Recharge" date stamped in red ink on the outside of the box. Unfortunately with APC ups['s and also RBC''s there is often a huge "APC" sticker covering up the battery make, capacity and the date code !

Hope this helps !

Dave

[Anonymous user]

We have several XS1500 units that were purchased as replacements about three years ago. They both had this same "disconnected battery" message at almost the same time. Batteries check out just fine on our battery tester, the battery wires both show 26 volts (this unit uses two 12-volt batteries in series) which disproves any broken wire theory. Tried all the solutions above including reinstalling the software (their web site is a bit sub-functional, and we had to find and use the original CDs--downloadable updated software woul dbe nice.) No joy. I suspect an electronics failure (yes our offices have a whole-house surge protector as do our phone lines, network wires and etc. Many other UPS units are fine) or programmed obsolescence. After many problems with APC we will be buying from a dfifferent company in the future.

[BillP]

Hi Duncan,

I apologize for the inconvenience that you have experienced. Have you contacted our APC Technical Support Team for troubleshooting and if the units are within warranty, we could send replacement if proven defective/there's a problem. APC BackUPS do have 3 year warranty on it.

[Anonymous user]

This random "Battery Disconnect" error seems to be a common problem with these Back-UPS LS700's. I have at least 8 of these units with the same exact problem, the red light comes on, they chirp, and the power management software says that the battery is disconnected. Then it 'reconnects' for a little while, then the same error and beeps again. We are using official APC RBC-17 batteries shipped directly from APC, so the batteries are NOT the problem.

All are Model: BPC700UC
I have been using APC UPS's for many may years and this is the only model that I have encountered that has this issue. APC should recall this model since they ALL seem to have the same problem...

We've already recycled a bunch of them and here are a few of the SN's from the ones that we still have:

3B053939X24704
4B0515P58272
4B0515P58269
NB0204251511

Is it a coincidence that all of these BPC700UC units are failing the same exact way? I think not...

[Anonymous user]

I almost laughed when I saw some of the troubleshooting suggestions for this problem.

I had two of the Back-Ups 900’s that had been sitting in the boxes for several years. I decided to use them and both had the replace battery - chirping problem.

I thought for about 5 seconds and decided to pull the batteries out. I then held the power button for 10 seconds before putting the batteries back in.

I plugged each UPS back into the AC and turned them on.

No more battery problems. FIXED

Just goes to show some people are educated beyond their intelligence.

[Anonymous user]

I Have about 15 of the LS 500 units that exhibit the same symptoms. If it is true that these batteries are so unreliable and touchy, then i suspect I made a mistake installing 70 of these things. I will return to just using surge suppressors and not deploy any more. They are a convenience, but not worth the money it costs to maintain them.

[BillP]

how old are these units?

[Anonymous user]

One was first installed in January 2010. Others are as much a 4 years old.

[BillP]

so you get a flashing replace battery light on the 15 year old units? are you replacing batteries and its not fixing the issue? 4 years seems adequate battery lifetime? let me know so i can assist further.

[Anonymous user]

Same problem here BP700UC. Bought a new 12V 7.5AH battery, got a chirp, replace battery would flash, then another chirp and it would stop flashing. This would happen about every 5 minutes or so (I didn't actually time it). I hooked it up to a computer and got the battery not connected/battery connected messages.

I took the unit to the battery store and tried another battery with a different lot number, and then tried a 12V 9.0AH battery with the same results.

I now have no battery and have essentially written the unit off... If APC wants to send me a mailer, I'll send it back to ya... hate for it to go to the landfill.