UPS RT8000XL: how to configure reboot after Power off ?

[bernd_apc]

Hi,

we have a smart-UPS RT 8000 XL. I'd like to have it shutdown the pc's responding to a power failure, shut off itself, and shut on again when power is restored and battery has a certain capacity.

I have the following times defined:

On the UPS:

- Low-Battery duration:                       2min

- Shutdown Delay:                           16min

- Maximum Required Delay:               2min

- no commandfile

On the client side:

UPS on battery ==> Shut down system ==> Shut down the PCNS operating system only when the event lasts this long (seconds):  600.

No commandfile is executed.

I expect the clients to shutdown after 600 sec. + 70sec (built in). This works fine.

I expect the UPS to switch off after 600sec. (Eventtime) + 120sec. Low Battery Duration + 120sec. built in + 960sec. Shutdown Delay. So the UPS should switch off after 30min. But it doesn't. It keeps running.

How can i configure that the UPs switchs off, waits until it reached a certain battery capacity, switchs on itself, and, as a goody, switchs on the clients ?

What do i need in the webinterface of the UPS, under "UPS ==> Configuration ==> Shutdow" ? Minimum battery capacity should be the one i need. What is about "Return Delay" or Sleep Time" ? Are they necessary to get the expected behaviour ? What is about "UPS ==> PowerChute ==> configuration ==> On-Battery Shutdown Behaviour ?

I have Firmware 477.15.W

Thanky for any hint.

Bernd

[BillP]

Why have you configured the shutdown delay for 16 minutes? This does not seem right.

• How much total runtime does your UPS have normally?And with how much left do you want it to turn off?
• What event do you have configured in PCNS and after how long does it last does the client start shutting down?
• How many servers are there total?

I am wondering also if you've reviewed the shutdown timeline in the PCNS help file.

Also, this post came to mind -> http://forums.apc.com/thread/14038 for understanding how some of the delays and stuff work.

My thought is that you need to reconfigure low battery duration and shutdown delay, and if anything reverse them and then configure one of your PowerChute clients to turn off the UPS when it is done shutting down. I want to understand more about the situation before I tell you that though officially.

[bernd_apc]

Angela N. schrieb:

Hi Angela,

> Why have you configured the shutdown delay for 16 minutes? This does not seem right.

Because some of my servers are hosts for virtual machines and need a long time to shutdown

> How much total runtime does your UPS have normally?And with how much left do you want it to turn off?

I have a runtime of 40minutes. I'd like to configure the UPS not to switch off having a certain runtime left, but switch it off after a dedicated time.

> What event do you have configured in PCNS and after how long does it last does the client start shutting down?

I have configured "Shut down the PCNS operating system only when the event lasts this long (seconds): ", the time is 600 sec (in "configure events" in the webinterface of every PCNS).

> How many servers are there total?

10

> I am wondering also if you've reviewed the shutdown timeline in the PCNS help file.

Yes i did.

> Also, this post came to mind -> http://forums.apc.com/thread/14038 for understanding how some of the

> delays and stuff work.

In this thread there is a document mentioned i'd like to have a look on, but i tried several downloads and Adobe Reader always say "Document is broken" http://www.apcmedia.com/salestools/PMAR-8P9G2C/PMAR-8P9G2C_R2_EN.pdf  . Could you check it and maybe provide a proper one ?

> My thought is that you need to reconfigure low battery duration and shutdown delay, and if anything reverse

> them and then configure one of your PowerChute clients to turn off the UPS when it is done shutting down. I

> want to understand more about the situation before I tell you that though officially.

What is about the other servers when the first one have shutdown and the pcns of it switchs off the UPS ?

The rest, which is a bit slower, loose power while shutting down ?

Bernd

[BillP]

Instead of raising the shutdown delay, you'll probably want these systems that take a while to shutdown after the UPS has been on battery for X seconds in the PowerChute event configuration OR raise the low battery duration/signaling time versus the shutdown delay. I feel like you've done this backwards where the low battery happens first then the shutdown delay so you should be increasing the low battery duration, not shutdown delay.

On the second point here, refer to point #1. You may want to configure this on the PCNS events side so that when your clients are done turning off, they can tell the UPS to turn off instead.

You'll probably want to configure the UPS: On battery event to shutdown the system after X amount of seconds/minutes so that the UPS can tell the client(s) to shutdown first and then the client can tell the UPS to turn off when the last one is done.

You should only have the last one configured to turn off the UPS instead of the first one. The slower stuff you should have shut off first and let the others run as long as they can and regardless, they are forced to shutdown when your UPS hits the low battery duration.

http://www.apcmedia.com/salestools/PMAR-8P9G2C/PMAR-8P9G2C_R2_EN.pdf is a working link for me. I'll attach the PDF here.

Essentially, with 40 minutes remaining, if your VMs take 16 minutes to shutdown, maybe have them start shutting down after let's say the UPS is on battery (by configuring UPS: On battery event in PCNS to start the OS shutdown) after the UPS has been on battery maybe 15 minutes or so (so you theroetically have 25 minutes left) and then raise your low battery duration time on the management card to something higher (let's say 10 minutes - if available) so that the slow systems shutdown first and when 10 minutes is remaining, everything else is forced to shutdown. On the slowest item to turn off, then configure that to tell the UPS to turn off so that it sends a command to the UPS when its done and it turns off. You can adjust these values somehow but hopefully I am communicating on how to to do this in general.

[bernd_apc]

Angela N. schrieb:

Hi Angela,

> Instead of raising the shutdown delay, you'll probably want these systems that take a while to shutdown after the > UPS has been on battery for X seconds in the PowerChute event configuration OR raise the low battery

> duration/signaling time versus the shutdown delay. I feel like you've done this backwards where the low battery

> happens first then the shutdown delay so you should be increasing the low battery duration, not shutdown delay.

I will try it. Question: the low battery duration is explained as "how long can the UPS run after a low-battery condition occurs". When appears a low-battery condition ? Is the "low-battery duration" a remainig runtime ?

Example: i configure a low-battery duration to 10 minutes. When the remainig runtime reaches 10 minutes,

this is a "low battery condition" which cause a shutdown for all connected servers. ?

(Following the online help from PCNS: "A low battery condition always causes a shutdown ...")

> On the second point here, refer to point #1. You may want to configure this on the PCNS events side so that

> when your clients are done turning off, they can tell the UPS to turn off instead.

> You'll probably want to configure the UPS: On battery event to shutdown the system after X amount of

> seconds/minutes so that the UPS can tell the client(s) to shutdown first and then the client can tell the UPS to

> turn off when the last one is done.

> You should only have the last one configured to turn off the UPS instead of the first one. The slower stuff you

> should have shut off first and let the others run as long as they can and regardless, they are forced to shutdown

> when your UPS hits the low battery duration.

Which is the "last one" ? The time a server needs to shutdown is not always constant. If it is a host running vm's it depends on what the vm's are doing. Sometimes a server has problems to unmout a filesystem and the shutdown takes longer. I can't be sure that the "last one" is always the same server.

What is about "Note: The Network Management Card will not allow the UPS to turn off until all of the servers running PCNS have completed their shutdown activities. " ? I found that in the online help from PCNS.

http://www.apcmedia.com/salestools/PMAR-8P9G2C/PMAR-8P9G2C_R2_EN.pdf is a working link for me. I'll

> attach the PDF here.

Thanks.

> Essentially, with 40 minutes remaining, if your VMs take 16 minutes to shutdown, maybe have them start

> shutting down after let's say the UPS is on battery (by configuring UPS: On battery event in PCNS to start the

> OS shutdown) after the UPS has been on battery maybe 15 minutes or so (so you theroetically have 25 minutes

> left) and then raise your low battery duration time on the management card to something higher (let's say 10

> minutes - if available) so that the slow systems shutdown first and when 10 minutes is remaining, everything

> else is forced to shutdown. On the slowest item to turn off, then configure that to tell the UPS to turn off so that

> it sends a command to the UPS when its done and it turns off. You can adjust these values somehow but

> hopefully I am communicating on how to to do this in general.

Another question: the maximum required delay is " calculated whenever the management interface of the UPS turns on or is reset, or when "Force Negotiation" is selected as Maximum Required Delay."

Can i force a negotiation during normal operation ? How is it calculated ?

Bernd

[BillP]

Yes, low battery duration is essentially a remaining runtime so when the UPS has left for runtime, it goes into a low battery state and forces a shutdown signal to any PCNS clients that are still running. It will constantly send this until it turns off due to no more battery capacity left. You're correct in your example.

The "last one" refers to the last client to shutdown that takes the longest. So it seems like you're unable to guarantee this during every scenario. The NMC, only as long as the UPS battery is not completely depleted, will prevent a shutdown of the UPS if any clients are left running. It can only run so far until the battery has 0% capacity. So yes, this is true with runtime.

Yes, on force negotiation you can manually force it. I have an article here on that topic -> What does the Force Negotiation setting achieve in the Network Management Card? | FAQs | Schneider E... (hopefully it covers what you want to know and what it polls to calculate this - it basically looks at the command file duration on a PCNS client)

[bernd_apc]

Angela N. schrieb:

Hi Angela,

thanks for the quick and clear answer.

> The "last one" refers to the last client to shutdown that takes the longest. So it seems like you're unable to

> guarantee this during every scenario. The NMC, only as long as the UPS battery is not completely depleted, will

> prevent a shutdown of the UPS if any clients are left running. It can only run so far until the battery has 0%

> capacity. So yes, this is true with runtime.

How do i have to configure the "Configure Shutdown" in the PCNS ?

"Turn the UPS off" or "Turn the UPS not off" ? In each client the same ?

I'd like to have the UPS switches off after the last client has shutdown to keep some battery capacity.

The other post you mentioned (questions about configuring the AP9631) is very interesting.

I think the scenario i like to have is there described as PCNS-driven (vs. UPS-driven).

Bill mentioned in one of his answers that the behaviour differs, depending on if you have a UPSlink or a Microlink UPS. How can i find out that ? Our UPS is 7 years old, it's a SU RT 8000 XL, AOS v3.7.3.

Is my understanding of the timeline right ?

Power Failure occurs. PCNS is configured in "UPS on battery ==> Configure shutdown ==> 600 sec." No command line file. After 10min, the built-in 70sec. run, and then begins the OS shutdown. This is the server.

For the UPS: Power failure occurs. After 10min the UPS turn off initiates. Low Battery duration run (i don't have a command line file, so the Low Battery Durations is greater), 2min built-in, Shutdown Delay, UPS off.

Right ? What does "sleep command issues" mean ?

Thanks again for your help

Bernd

[BillP]

Under configure shutdown where you see the option to configure a command file when the UPS shuts down, you should see an option to Turn the UPS off. You'll select that.

Your UPS is UPS-Link.

Also, I am not sure we're on the same page with the shutdown. When the UPS goes to battery, it will continue to run until the low battery duration runtime value is hit. On PCNS, you need to set the UPS: On battery event to trigger a shutdown after X seconds - is this also set for 10 minutes? (We also might need to refer to that other thread because I haven't been following it as closely since my co-worker was researching it - Bill that is - he won't be back till next week and I am also on vacation after today until then). Either way, the OS shutdown will start, the command file delay is applied, and then you'll see a varying amount of delays in there. The user's guide I have you has a diagram there some place too.

Sleep after a power outage refers to the state where the UPS is waiting for AC power to return and when it does, it wakes up and comes online. Sleep is also a command a user can issue outside of a power outage for a certain duration. For example, if I know my building will have a power outage for two hours, I can set my UPS to sleep for the two hours and come back on so I do not unnecessarily have my UPS deplete its batteries during a planned outage. And it automatically comes back on its own.

[bernd_apc]

Hi Angela,

> Under configure shutdown where you see the option to configure a command file when the UPS shuts down, you

> should see an option to Turn the UPS off. You'll select that.

On each Server ?

> Your UPS is UPS-Link.

OK. Thanks.

> Also, I am not sure we're on the same page with the shutdown. When the UPS goes to battery, it will continue

> to run until the low battery duration runtime value is hit. On PCNS, you need to set the UPS: On battery event to

> trigger a shutdown after X seconds - is this also set for 10 minutes? (We also might need to refer to that other

> thread because I haven't been following it as closely since my co-worker was researching it - Bill that is - he

> won't be back till next week and I am also on vacation after today until then). Either way, the OS shutdown will

> start, the command file delay is applied, and then you'll see a varying amount of delays in there. The user's

> guide I have you has a diagram there some place too.

I have the following understanding: when the UPS remining runtime is under the Low Battery Duration, then the UPS signals the server to shutdown. This is what some guys call "UPS-driven".

"PCNS-driven" means: PCNS is configured in "UPS on battery: Shut down the PCNS operating system only when the event lasts this long (seconds):" I choosed that and entered 600secs. Here the server signals the UPS to shutdown.

Is my understanding correct ?

I'd like to use PCNS-driven. I understand the timeline (graphic in the help of PCNS, attached) for PCNS-driven shutdown as follows:

Example configuration: "Shut down the PCNS operating system only when the event lasts this long (seconds):"

600sec.

Low Battery Duration: 120sec.

I don't have a commandline.

Shutdown Delay: 300sec.

Sequence is as follows: Power off. After 10min (600secs) PCNS signals server and UPS to shutdown. Server wait for built-in 70secs., then shutdown. UPS waits after the 10 min for further 2 min (low-battery duration) and another 2 min (buit-in), furthermore for 300secs. shutdown delay and then swiches off.

Right ?

Do i have to configure each PCNS to shutdown the UPS so that the UPS is switched off after the last server has shutdown ? What do i have to do if i want the UPS after the whole sequence to switch off, recharge to a certain amount of capacity when power is restored, then switches on itself when reached the desired capacity and hopefully switch on all the connected devices.

Thanks in advance and have some nice days off.

Bernd

[BillP]

Hi,

In your scenario after the UPS has been on battery for 10 minutes PCNS will wait an additional 70 seconds and start the OS shutdown.  Also, at the end of the 10 minutes PCNS will send a shutdown signal to the NMC/UPS. The UPS will wait the 2 minute low battery duration, the additional 2 minutes, and the 300 second power off delay before going to sleep mode. The UPS will remain in sleep mode for roughly 9 minutes and then power all the way down to preserve the battery. If in that 9 minutes of sleep mode power is restored or after powering down when power is restored if configured to do so the UPS will power back up.

If you have multiple system running PCNS and listening to that NMC/UPS then you would want to configure the system that takes the longest to power down to be the one that sends the shutdown signal to the NMC/UPS.

[bernd_apc]

Bill P. schrieb:

> Hi,

Hi Bill,

> In your scenario after the UPS has been on battery for 10 minutes PCNS will wait an additional 70 seconds and start

> the OS shutdown.  Also, at the end of the 10 minutes PCNS will send a shutdown signal to the NMC/UPS. The UPS

> will wait the 2 minute low battery duration, the additional 2 minutes, and the 300 second power off delay before going to

> sleep mode.

This is also my understanding

> The UPS will remain in sleep mode for roughly 9 minutes and then power all the way down to preserve the

> battery. If in that 9 minutes of sleep mode power is restored or after powering down when power is restored if configured

> to do so the UPS will power back up.

From where do you derive the 9 minutes of sleep time ? I tested the UPS the last weekend, using the configuration above. For me it seems that, after the 10 minutes of the on battery event and after the following 9 minutes (2min Low Battery Duration + 2min build in + 5min shutdown delay) the UPS switched off. Or is there no obvious difference between sleep and switch off, seen from outside ? What does "sleep time" means ?

To start the clients automatically after the power back up from the UPS, you have to configure the BIOS of each client. I did this after my UPS test, so i will have to do a second one to see if all clients are starting auomatically.

> If you have multiple system running PCNS and listening to that NMC/UPS then you would want to configure the

> system that takes the longest to power down to be the one that sends the shutdown signal to the NMC/UPS.

It's difficult to predict which system needs the longest time to shutdown. On hosts running vm's the host shutdown time depends on what the guests are currently doing. Also, hosts have sometimes problems unmounting filesystems so shutdown lasts significantly longer. I've set all clients configured to shutdown the UPS after their own shutdown.

Bernd

[bernd_apc]

> Bill P. schrieb:

> Hi,

> In your scenario after the UPS has been on battery for 10 minutes PCNS will wait an additional 70 seconds and start > the OS shutdown.  Also, at the end of the 10 minutes PCNS will send a shutdown signal to the NMC/UPS. The UPS > will wait the 2 minute low battery duration, the additional 2 minutes, and the 300 second power off delay before going > to sleep mode. The UPS will remain in sleep mode for roughly 9 minutes and then power all the way down to

> preserve the battery. If in that 9 minutes of sleep mode power is restored or after powering down when power is

> restored if configured to do so the UPS will power back up.

Hi Bob,


is sleep time always 9 minutes or can i configure it ? What does "sleep" means ?


Bernd

[BillP · Accepted solution]

Sleep mode is when the UPS is not providing power to the outlets but is still providing power to the smart slot device e.g. Network Management Card. You can tell the UPS is in sleep mode when you see all of the LEDs flashing in order. Top 2, middle 2, bottom 2.

In the scenario I described sleep would not be user configurable.