Symmetra 16kVA 3:1 (50Hz) with Phase 1 not sensing

[Anonymous user]

I have a problem with a Symmetra 16kVA N+1, three phase input (380VAc, 50Hz) and one phase output (230VAc, 50Hz).
The voltage reading (on the front panel) of phase1 is equal to 0. So, there is 0Hz as input frequency reading.
The unit gives a FAULT (red Led) because of bypass voltage out of limits.
The UPS is running on On-Line (inverter feeding the load). The input current is equal on the three phases.

This happened after the hughe earthquake in Chile and with a blackout of several days.

Thanks.

[BillP]

From your description, it seems the voltage sense of the Main Intelligence Module may have been compromised. As you said, the power modules are operating on-line, so there is no actual issue with your Ph1 input.

You can try re-seating the Main Intel Module or installing a known-good module to determine the source of the issue.

[Anonymous user]

have you physically checked the incoming line voltage ?

if so and reads okay - take advice and remove and re-seat the mim (as long as rim okay)

if unit believes the mains is out of tolerance, it may not switch to static bypass correctly - so be careful.

[Anonymous user]

Thanks JoeMomma for your reply to my question.

You are right. The P1 is OK (within values).

I have reinserted serveral times the MIM and the RIM with no success. So I guess the problem might be the MIM.
I will have to tell my customer the idea to replace it.

Regards,E

[Anonymous user]

Hi UPS_Tech. Thanks for yor help.

Yes, I have physically checked the input voltage (with a TRUE RMS DVM). I did as well a test, connecting a 4kW resistive load to the UPS. Each input phase was measuring the same amount of current. So the unit is working.

Yes, the unit will not switch to bypass because it has a Fault, indicating input voltage and frecuency out of tolerance.

I removed RIM and MIM several times, without any improvment in the problem.

So, I guess the problem might be the MIM, as JoeMomma told me. It is the one who senses the input voltage.

Regards,E

[Anonymous user]

Just to inform, I have the detailed specs of MIM and RIM:
MIM: FW princ: 135, esc:209
H/W Rev.
NS: CD0139121967
Fecha Fabr: 10/02/01
Estado MI:
State=05 Fan=01
100 10 00110100
Vint=2408 00000000

RIM: FW REV: 209
Estado MIR:
011 0 0

Regards,E

[Anonymous user]

okay, firmware rev may be a little old - cannot remember if should be 2.16..

can you pls go to diag menu, and check mim and rim raw status dump ?

should be a bunch of values, we can decode them to advise what the mim/rim think is happening.

cheers

[Anonymous user]

I don't know why It didn't show on the last post. But I included all the numbers of both modules. Here again:
MIM: FW princ: 135, esc:209 H/W Rev NS: CD0139121967 State=05 Fan=01 100 10 00110100 Vint=2408 00000000

RIM: FW rev: 209 State 011 0 0

Thanks.

[Anonymous user]

okay raw status indicates im failure as a general consensus. looks like the rim is in control, judging by IM error codes.
it should show the green led on the far right to indicate load on, and it should show bypass not avail or out of tolerance.

funnily enough it also shows 'lower sys fan failure'.

something is fishy bout the mim, all alarms shown cannot possibly occur at once unless it has had a catstrophic failure.
i would say replace the mim.

[Anonymous user]

No, I haven't tried to swap MIM and RIM in alternate position.

But I will inform the customer that we have to replace MIM. Do you know where I can find a MIM for this older model of Symmetra?

Thanks again for your help and support.
Christian Knaack

[Anonymous user]

Thanks.

Do you know where can I find a MIM? I live in Chile and the voltage is 380/220Vac, 50Hz for the input (three phase) and 220Vac, 50Hz for the output.

Well, all this happened after the huge earthquake in Chile (7.7 degrees and in some places 8.2 degrees on Richter scale). The customer's site was 5 days without energy. After it came back, the unit couldn't be turned on. They have an external Maintenance Switch and used it to feed the load.
Once I got to the customer I found following problems: MIM had the 2 internal fuses blown (of 3), one Power Module had input fuses blown.

Just with RIM (without working MIM), the UPS won't start at all.

I replaced both fuses on MIM and also on input board of the Power Module. I found nothing else burned (capacitor, transistor, MOV, etc.etc.etc.).

The unit started BUT with no input frecuency nor Phase 1 value and with Input out of tolerance alarm.

The Power module works but just with the inverter. The charger doesn't work (I made some tests with just this module and a 2kW resistive load. Without input power, the power module was feeding the load via battery power and it's inverter. Once power was returned, the unit transfered to on-line but without charging batteries).
The other 3 modules are working fine.

The unit works with 4 battery banks, which are ok.

[Anonymous user]

have you tried swapping the mim and rim around in alternate position then starting back up on battery supply only ?

sys fan fail could also be relevan to a faulty mim/rim

hard to help anymore without being in front of ups

edit: just read bout the power mod, must be faulty as per diagnosis. next step is to replace power module i imagine.

Message was edited by: UPS_Tech

[BillP]

I'd try either Google or the reseller lookup on the APC website: http://www.apc.com/tools/locator/

Model number on the MIM is SYMIM2.

On a side note, the MIM and RIM aren't the same physically (except on the newest Symmetra LX units) so you can't just swap their positions...

[Anonymous user · Accepted solution]

you are absolutely correct - absent minded you see. have been fault finding px and stuck in train of thought.