SURT8000RMXLI with AP9619p - Setting the IP Address

[hilzz_apc]

I recently acquired this UPS with many batteries and was wondering how to reset/set the ip address as I have already tried arp, dhcp and terminal.

ARP

- I've got the UPS management card connected to a switch that I am also connected to, setting the arp with the mac address printed on the card (removed it with the ups powered off) and then performing the ping with the 113 byte size didn't bring it online nor was I able to ping it, am I meant to do this from the DHCP server?

DHCP

- I've connected it to our network and checked to see if a new devices comes online but nothing appears. I'm not sure if DHCP has been disabled and there is a static IP already set but this could be a reason why its not working for me.

Terminal

- I've got a usb to serial cable and then a blue cisco console cable that I have used for watchguard and cisco devices and has worked fine. I played around with the broad rate from 2400 and 9600 which seem to be the recommended settings that people have suggested online, despite smashing the crap out of the enter key, I've had no luck getting to the login part that people talk about.

As it stands right now, I'm not getting much luck out of this management card. I'm thinking that I'll need to get a serial cable from APC.. the back of the ups unit has a serial port, tried plugging the usb to serial cable into that and the unit shut down several times, took it out and it stopped doing it so guess that wasn't the right thing to do, lucky there were no business critical devices plugged into the UPS.. the management card has only a network port on it and a port for the probe.

Questions

1. Can someone please clarify which model cable I need to buy?
2. How can I find which batteries are faulty after a calibration?
3. Can I disconnect batteries while the UPS is online?

[BillP]

Hi,

On 5/19/2016 7:47 AM, hilzz said:

Can someone please clarify which model cable I need to buy?

The cable needed is 940-0024 

On 5/19/2016 7:47 AM, hilzz said:

How can I find which batteries are faulty after a calibration?

If you think there is a bad battery in an external pack disconnect the pack and run a self-test. If the test passes with the pack disconnected you need to test each individual battery. Our recommendation is to replace the entire pack. 

On 5/19/2016 7:47 AM, hilzz said:

Can I disconnect batteries while the UPS is online?

Yes. 

[hilzz_apc]

On 5/19/2016 10:53 PM, Bill said:

The cable needed is 940-0024 

That looks like a serial to serial, are you sure its not serial to console/eth cable? The serial interface I have is on the UPS and the only interface I have on the card is a eth  port.

On 5/19/2016 10:53 PM, Bill said:

If you think there is a bad battery in an external pack disconnect the pack and run a self-test. If the test passes with the pack disconnected you need to test each individual battery. Our recommendation is to replace the entire pack. 

I've got 16 batteries connected to my ups, you make it sound easy but I don't think it is.. what if I pull 1 pack out and there is another battery pack and its still reporting faulty, sounds like its going to be a nightmare figuring out which ones are bad?

Also, what is the easiest way to reset the IP address without knowing what it is and without the console cable?

[BillP]

Hi,

I checked the build of materials and the serial cable that ships with the SURT8000RMXLI is 940-0024E which is 9 pin serial to 9 pin serial. The E at the end is a revision. Any 940-0024 cable will work.  

This image show the connection in the upper left rear corner. 

On 5/19/2016 9:04 AM, hilzz said:

Also, what is the easiest way to reset the IP address without knowing what it is and without the console cable?

No. The best way to reset is with the cable. 

[MarkC_apc]

Some issues I've been able to work around:

Since most computers now do not have a db9 connector, I've been able to use a usb to db9 converter (with a driver) at the computer.  However, the serial cable that connects to the UPS MUST be the APC compliant type - many are available on ebay.  Your terminal program will then access the "smart protocol" that resides in the UPS itself rather than the nice web based interface that resides in the NMC.  Of course, once you get your IP addresses correct, the NMC will become available.

I have been able to identify weak battery cages by comparing the voltages of each cage - if one is substantially lower than the other, there is likely a weak or bad battery in that cage.  These voltages are measured (very carefully - each cage operates at nominal 96 volts DC - usually around 108 volts on charge) at the brown Anderson connectors.  The SURT8000 and SURT10000 units operate at nominal +192 and -192 volts at the DC battery inputs.  These "operating" voltages require two cages in series for each of the 192 nominal volts.  So, the voltages to compare are the two cages within each divided compartment in each of the external battery packs.  Be extremely careful if measuring voltages on the two white Andersons on the back of the UPS as between the most positive and most negative terminals are over 400 volts DC!

Since I only use the DC battery packs for testing, I often replace individual batteries in the cages.  This technique allows me to fairly quickly find defective individual batteries.  For actual backup use, APC/Schneider recommends replacing all batteries with fresh.  With so many batteries in series (and in parallel in your case), one bad battery can ruin an entire pack quickly under cyclic/continuous loads.

[hilzz_apc]

I've got 14 battery packs installed, in each pack there are 8 individual batteries, if I was to replace the 8 batteries in 1 pack, will the bad batteries in the other packs affect these new batteries?

[hilzz_apc]

Anyone?

Is there any issue with using generic batteries?

I'm thinking of upgrading the 12v 5ah batteries to 12v 7ah.

Can they be replaced with higher capacity batteries from 5ah to 7ah, as I understand this will give the system a longer running time. Reason I ask is because I can get these replacement batteries at the same price so I might as well make the most of it, I just want to make sure it doesn't upset anything. 

In total there are 4 additional bays, so in total 16 additional battery packs making it 160 batteries in total, its going to cost about $14 per battery, a total price of $2240 to replace all batteries.

[MarkC_apc]

These units will run with "generic" batteries and also with higher amp-hour rating batteries of the same size and voltage.  HOWEVER, there are slightly different construction materials and techniques that affect both the quality and durability of these small/cheaply made VRLA (valve regulated lead acid) UPS batteries.  I have experience with Battery Shark supplied batteries and have the best pricing that I've found.  They are in the business of providing UPS type batteries that are designed for long "float" periods and then a sudden (usually high energy) usage.

Can you replace individual batteries and be successful?  I have many times, but as stated, mainly for testing only.  If the service is critical to support a network for instance, replacing individual batteries and/or entire cages can be very risky as any weak link in that long chain of batteries in series (and made even more susceptible to failure by several parallel strings),  can cause entire battery packs to fail.  Worst case, a bad battery or singular pack can relatively quickly ruin good batteries.  That is why APC/Schneider will recommend replacing failing packs with all new batteries that all have similar "starting points" in their life.

Your system is large by most standards both in KW of the UPS and in VA hours of the batteries (almost 10,000!).  It is nature of the beast that battery replacement will be expensive!  The best I could advise is if you have several new cages combined with other older cages, confirm that the older cages are the problems and replace them first.

[hilzz_apc]

Thanks Mark.

Will upgrading the battery from 5ah to 7ah give me more running time?

I will ask more questions to the battery supplier before proceeding with the purchase of batteries. 

My plan of action;

1. Purchased the console cable, already have the serial to usb converter. Set the network ip so I can see what the ups is saying is wrong.
2. Purchase  32 batteries to start, and replace the batteries in the main unit and see how that goes, cleanl I  all the contacts and maybe even replace the heat shrinked fuse inside the pack, hopefully I can source it from somewhere.
3. Perform the battery calibration with 30% load, and let it charge up the batteries, check the estimated run time, run it off the batteries and let see how long the actual runtime is and then if that all goes well, then i'll proceed with buying more batteries for the other cartridges. If I calculate things right, 4 packs = 8kva, and in total, all combined will give me a total of upto 32kva.
   
   

My worst fear is that the main unit is not charging anything therefore creating these problems for me. Hopefully the main unit replacement wont cost too much if this is the case.

[MarkC_apc]

On 5/21/2016 8:43 PM, hilzz said:

Will upgrading the battery from 5ah to 7ah give me more running time?

IMO - not convinced they are the correct construction technique to work well with UPS demands - The closer you get to the originals, the better - just my opinion - not based on tests.  The ability to withstand "float" conditions for long time periods is the critical criteria.

I will ask more questions to the battery supplier before proceeding with the purchase of batteries. 

My plan of action;

Purchased the console cable, already have the serial to usb converter. Set the network ip so I can see what the ups is saying is wrong.

Let me know how that goes - confirm all works well with that approach.  If you have not seen the NMC logging before, you will be impressed.  I set it for logs every minute when testing to see what trends quickly, i.e. battery % remaining, voltages, watts, etc.

Purchase  32 batteries to start, and replace the batteries in the main unit and see how that goes.

Good start - to confirm the UPS itself passes all tests - including the calibration.  The 8k and 10K SURTs must have 4 cages to work.

cleanl I  all the contacts and maybe even replace the heat shrinked fuse inside the pack, hopefully I can source it from somewhere.

Check the fuses for continuity and if they are NOT open,  reuse them.  If they are open - you have some real problems!  Might just spray contact cleaner.

Perform the battery calibration with 30% load, and let it charge up the batteries, check the estimated run time, run it off the batteries and let see how long the actual runtime is and then if that all goes well, then i'll proceed with buying more batteries for the other cartridges. If I calculate things right, 4 packs = 8kva, and in total, all combined will give me a total of upto 32kva.

Good plan.  Each pack has the following VA-hrs: 8x12x5=480 VA-hrs, or essentially watt-hrs from 100% to 0% SOC (state of charge).  The "KVA" represents the loads of the unit itself - not the energy of the batteries.

My worst fear is that the main unit is not charging anything therefore creating these problems for me. Hopefully the main unit replacement wont cost too much if this is the case.

The unit not charging is easily determined as the NMC will not show any increase in % battery charge after any discharging and re-hooking the "mains".  I'd try that test before you do a "calibration" by discharging to around 60% batteries and then recharging.  I've seen on this blog that has been a problem with these units.  Again, once you have checked out the SURT operation, I would start checking each additional battery unit (4 cages - RT-192 RMXL) by hooking up individually, charging if possible, and then checking the voltages on each cage (brown Andersons - carefully - I've ruined a probe by shorting -exciting!).  If, say, the voltage on one cage is 110 volts and the (associated) cage is 80 volts, there is very likely a bad battery in that 192 (nominal) volt "system" of two cages - and likely in the 80 volt cage.  Again, if this is a critical service, I'd replace all 32 batteries in that "unit".

Good luck and let me know. 

[hilzz_apc]

Ok so I connected a network cable from the unit to a laptop, opened wireshark, reset the adapter via the small hole, monitored the network adapter and found the ip address, changed it to suit my network, logged into the interface, updated the network card firmware, the unit was showing the following errors;

The battery is not installed properly.

The battery power is too low to support the load; if power fails, the UPS will be shut down immediately.

It was sitting on 1% and not moving so I swapped one of the batteries from the top rack from the lower rack and now I can see it charging slowly increasing, currently at 15% and increasing slowly.. Fingers crossed it stays this way..

The run time does not seem to be increasing at all.. I think perhaps I'll let it charge for 24 hours and then perform the manual calibration with the load I have on it at the moment..

------- Smart-UPS RT 8000 RM XL ----------------------------------------------

Status of UPS : Discharged, No Other Alarms Present
Last Transfer : Due to software command or UPS's test control
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Input Voltage : 233.2 VAC Input Frequency : 49.89 Hz
Output Voltage : 231.6 VAC Output Frequency : 49.89 Hz
Load Power : 023.0 % Watts Battery Voltage : 218.1 VDC
Max Line Voltage : 234.7 VAC Battery Capacity : 015.0 %
Min Line Voltage : 231.8 VAC Runtime Remaining : 0000 min
Apparent Load Power : 020.0 % VA
Internal Temp : 022.9 C
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Self-Test Result : Passed Calibration Result : Not available
Self-Test Date : 05/23/2016 Calibration Date : Unknown

[hilzz_apc]

I waited until the UPS got to 100% charge and then I did the calibration with 23% load (suggested is between 20% and 30%), it didn't jump on the battery, rather it dropped the output voltage and then started charging the batteries again from 0%.

[MarkC_apc]

Are you using ONLY the 4 battery cages (with all new batteries) that are contained inside the main unit?  IF so, what are the voltages at each cage?  It appears at least one of your "chargers" are working (I believe these units have two separate charge systems).

[hilzz_apc]

i'm using the internal and 1 external so 8 in total, each cage voltage is 105vdc

[MarkC_apc · Accepted solution]

I'm going to respond on your other post - no sense in two going on.