SMX1500RM2U switching to battery

[Anonymous user]

We have a brand new SMX1500RM2U with a AP9630 V2 card that we have installed in the last couple of weeks. Since installation we have been seeing random switches to battery with the following warning:

Date : 03/30/2010
Time : 20:05:11
Code : 0x0109

Warning Events - UPS: On battery power in response to unknown.


Within 1 second it switches back to normal power with this warning:

Date : 03/30/2010
Time : 20:05:12
Code : 0x010A

Informational Events - UPS: No longer on battery power.

We have other equipment installed in this closet on the same circuit but NOT connected to the UPS and it isn't indicating that the AC power has been lost. We have both the most current SUMX code and UPS OS code of 5.11 loaded.
I have searched through the forums and haven't seen anything related to this. However, this is fairly new firmware. are there any known issues out there that would be causing this? At this point it doesn't appear to be facility power as mentioned above. It does appear to be a problem with the UPS.
I should also mention that we have ran both self tests and calibrations without issues.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Anonymous user]

happy to. Can you tell me how? i don't have a copy option from a telnet session and i don't see an option from the web interface to access these files.

Thanks!

[BillP]

what part? warmstarts? there will be some fixes in the next NMC rev due out in about a month or so. as for the on battery due to unknown, again that is a UPS issue and I am not 100% sure when that is due out, maybe early next year. also, after a warmstart you will no longer see the messages about the outlet groups now being turned on (since they were never really off).

AP9630 should see the above "issues" except maybe the warmstarts. seems to me more so of an issue with AP9631.

[Anonymous user]

Sorry for the lack of clarity. Our problem is specifically with the warmstarts. Thanks for the update winna, much appreciated.

[BillP]

Ok, I did not skim all the way back to the beginning here so I had forgotten what you ended up finding.

I am out of the office until wednesday of this week but will send this thread for review now to someone who can help. As I mentioned, I see your logs here but I am not aware of a known issue that indicates the units are too sensitive in any way. The only thing I did eventually get fixed was this "on battery due to unknown."

I apologize and I understand its annoying when there does not appear to be an apparent cause for the problem. There must be a problem some place - whether it is input power type specific or firmware or something. I will post back when I hear anything but as I said, I am out of the office today and tomorrow.

[Squuiid_apc]

jwilder, exactly!
The sensitivity is FAR too sensitive and the unit spends all day long clicking on and off every couple of seconds, 24/7. This threshold needs to be tweaked in a firmware revision, and/or needs to be user adjustable.
The UPS-->Power-->Sensitivity setting does nothing. I have it on LOW and the issue persists.
As I said previously, my non SMX APC UPS models do not exhibit this clicking on and off battery all day long.

[BillP]

Yes, I am trying! I'd suggest getting your data.txt, config.ini, and event.txt downloaded as I figure I may need updated copies depending what I hear back, as it is something we ask for standard. You can retrieve these by ftp, instructions in kbase 9321 on apc.com/support.

Thanks!

Also, I know squuiid is at the latest firmware. Jwilder - is yours updated?

[BillP]

hmm ok. i wasnt sure how you get the data log. it looked like the way i normally do it.

Just do it via FTP. instructions are here for reference -> http://nam-en.apc.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/9321

[Anonymous user]

squuiid, this is the exact same behavior that i have witnessed and is what started my intitial thread.

Angela, no i haven't updated my firmware yet. i was waiting for someone else to be the guinea pig 😉 Looks like i picked squuiid to be the winna! lol...

Let me know if you still want me to update firmware or not.

Thanks!

[Squuiid_apc]

My unit came with that firmware, I did not update it. I purchased it 4 months or so ago and the manufacture date is 09/11/2010.
I've had this problem since day one and almost returned it. I wish now that I had.

Model: Smart-UPS X 1500
Serial Number: xxxxxxxxxx
Firmware Revision: UPS 03.6 / COM 03.6 / UBL 05.0 / CBL 02.1
Manufacture Date: 09/11/2010

Apparent Power Rating: 1440 VA
Real Power Rating: 1200 W


Management card:

Model Number: AP9631
Serial Number: xxxxxxxxxxx
Hardware Revision: 05
Manufacture Date: 08/13/2010

Message was edited by: Squuiid

[Squuiid_apc]

One last point I'd like to raise.
There are two issues at play here. One is the sensitivity problem where the device kicks into battery mode far too readily, despite the low sensitivity setting.

The other issue, which is just as important, is that there does not seem to be a delay during which the device will not switch back from battery to AC.
This is hard to explain, but when the device kicks into battery it should STAY on battery for 20 seconds to a minute, and then check to see if the current has come back within acceptable limits. If it has then it should return, but not before at least 20 seconds.
What it seems to ACTUALLY be doing is as soon as the current returns to an acceptable level it kicks back to AC immediately. This means that if the current is on the threshold, the device can click hundreds of times, on and off from battery to AC to battery to AC within the space of a minute. This cannot be good for the device.
Sometimes the thing sounds like a machine gun of clicks, clicking on and off incessantly as the current teeters on the edge of the threshold.
Either the developers poorly thought this through, or it is a bug or oversight which needs to be corrected.

Message was edited by: Squuiid

[BillP]

thank you guys. also, jwilder, i believe you set your sensitivity to Low, correct? Squuiid, is it the same for you? can both of you confirm the transfer voltage settings and sensitivity settings for me? thank you.

[Anonymous user]

Hi Angela, yes i did adjust my sensitivity settings to low. i also adjusted my output limits for upper and lower as 132/103 vs the defauls of 126/107 and am still experiencing the issues. I got these numbers from one of my older Smart-UPS 1400 RM XL. The defaults are 132/103 on this unit and the sensitivity is set to high. It is in the same building as my 1500 and the 1400 is NOT experiencing these power transfers. Hope that makes sense. Please let me know if you need me to clarify anything.

Thanks!

[Anonymous user]

Angela, per our phone con earlier attached are the log files. please let me know if you need anything else.

Thanks!

[BillP]

hi jeff - can you get me event.txt and config.ini too? thanks.

[Anonymous user]

Sorry that makes sense. however, i am receiving a 421 service not available when trying to connect. i can telnet into the device. i have verified that the FTP server is enabled on port 21........ Any ideas?

forgot to add that i have disabled the windows firewall as well.......

Message was edited by: jwilder

[BillP]

thanks jeff and squuiid, if you can provide your files to analyze too, that'd be helpful.

[BillP]

just an update, investigation is continuing with a few units we tracked down here with similar, less severe symptoms.

[BillP]

thanks. just wanted to let you guys know that this is an open, ongoing investigation but i think we have some valuable data now and the Smart UPS team is working on it. i am not directly involved in the investigation so i don't know any further details but it is something we have witnessed in our environment now too.

[Anonymous user]

Thanks Angela. Good to know that they are now able to duplicate the issues for resolution.

[BillP]

no major update. it is an ongoing investigation and bug logged. i am not sure of the root cause yet but regardless, if I had to guess, down the line it will require a UPS firmware update or replacement in some fashion. that is a complete, educated guess at this point so no promises. i can promise that the issue is on the radar though with the appropriate folks.

[BillP]

Did you try increasing the "High transfer" voltage on your UPS?

[Squuiid_apc]

Angela, it has been another two weeks and we still don't have a solution to this problem. I have been unable to enable email monitoring negating the monitoring card expense and putting my network at risk. This is totally unacceptable and APC need to issue a statement or fix. Either offer a free replacement, including shipping costs or put out a firmware fix.

[BillP]

You can check the input tolerances on the connected equipment (usually printed near where the input cord connects to the device). It's likely they will allow a range of 110-240v- if so, you should be able to safely increase the high transfer threshold to 136v. You could also try increasing the value in 2 volt increments until the clicking ceases.

[Squuiid_apc]

That is the first good suggestion I have heard on this thread so far. I will let you know how I get on.
Thanks gen_y.

[BillP]

Squuiid - if that didnt work, we could try to delay the notifications on the NMC until it lasted for ___ minutes but i understand that may not be accessible either.

I think we are very close to a resolution - whether it be RMA or more preferably, a firmware update. i dont want to quote any days here if something changes but i will have a solution sooner than later for you. i will report back when i have something definite that you can do, assuming gen_y's suggestion helps out until we have that fix.

[BillP]

Thanks winna for this info. I have some SMX's I've bought over the last couple of months that have been annoying the crap out of me with the warmstarts and due to "unknown" transfers. Your first line guys at 800-800-4APC are not exactly handing out accurate information around this issue. Even after they talked to an engineer on their end they said this was normal behaviour...

-S

[BillP]

if you want me to PM me any of the case information, i will look into it. did you get the firmware upgrade to make sure the alert says "on battery due to an input power distortion" (or whatever the wording is) instead of "on battery due to unknown?"

[BillP]

No, they didn't give me a case number and seemed not interested in providing firmware for the UPS itself. I will PM you.

[Anonymous user]

Just to throw my 2cents in..

The SMT1500RM2U models do not suffer from this problem.

[BillP]

SMT units are different from SMX completely. i have not forgotten about this post and/issue. if you follow gen_y's suggestion about adjusting thresholds, the issue should go away until a fix is supplied (which should be extremely soon!).

if you have the on battery due to "unknown" which is a completely cosmetic issue, ensure you contact APC tech support to get your UPS upgraded.

[BillP]

hi mike. i will check on this. don't quote me but i hope its more like days versus weeks or months where i can provide a fix.

so I know, what is your UPS firmware, from either an NMC or LCD on the front of the UPS. you should see a UPS, UBL, CBL, and COM version?

and to clarify, which specific issues are you seeing? there are a few mentioned in the thread.

thanks.

[BillP]

All three of my SMX 1500s' have Firmware Revision: UPS 02.2 / COM 02.3 / UBL 05.0 / CBL 01.0

I am seeing:

Warning - UPS: Compensating for a high input voltage.
Warning - UPS: On battery power in response to unknown
Informational - UPS: The power for switched outlet group 1, Outlet Group 1, is now turned on.

I have sensitivity set to low. The previous UPS did not have any of the these issues.
The Voltage variance is has not gone over 125 VAC. So, no major spikes.


Mike

[BillP]

ok, check a few posts above for gen_y's suggestion in addressing the frequent trimming and battery transfers.

the update that i should have available within days will address "on battery unknown" which is just cosmetic. the update will have the proper wording of "on battery due to an input power problem" or something similar.

Informational - UPS: The power for switched outlet group 1, Outlet Group 1, is now turned on. - this is normal, expected behavior. when the NMC reboots (called warmstart or network interface restarted in the event log), it generally will identify the current outlet state of the UPS, and tell you the group(s) are now turned on. this is a bit misleading and makes you think the outlet groups were off at one point, which is NOT the case.

i believe that will be addressed in a future release of NMC firmware (versus UPS firmware) since it is indeed mis-leading.

[Squuiid_apc]

Yep, sensitivity is indeed set to "Low".

[Squuiid_apc]

Thanks very much Angela. Much appreciated.

[Squuiid_apc]

Any chance of an update please?