Need help on a couple of Matrix units

[Anonymous user]

We have 2 Matrix 5000s on 208v power with external XL battery packs, plus a bunch of other UPSes in our NOC. We have a generator with an automatic transfer switch.

Last week we had a power outage of about a minute, we think the power company was screwing around in the neighborhood at the time (we saw their trucks) We don't know what they did but 1 of the Matrixes survived it, the other did not.

On the second Matrix it started claiming that it's batteries are bad, and dropping output power when input power is lost. These batteries were replaced 2.5 years ago. I pulled all of them out and loaded tested all of them with a 50 amp load, no problem. I took one to our battery supplier who has the better simulated load tester, it said the battery was fine. The batteries are Trojan AGM's, I'm pretty sure they are fine.

I moved everything off the UPS and ran some tests - with no load whatsover on the UPS, initiating the calibration test got an immediate error indicator that the batteries were bad. I did the reset communications trick maybe a dozen times, no dice - the battery pack light goes out, UPS reports the batteries are there, fully charged, 200 minutes of runtime - then you turn off the breaker to the UPS and it immediately says the batteries are bad and there's no output power. As it is now, right after power up the UPS claims there's one connected battery pack, that the batteries are at 100% charge, but you try to calibrate and the UPS immediately says the batteries are bad.

During testing I did not hear the inverter start in the UPS, I just heard the transfer relays kick around a bit. I'm guessing that something went bad in the EU probably the inverter control board.

I had a spare Matrix 3000 in the back, so I dragged that out and replaced the 5000 (the dang things
are heavy) and discovered that the 3000 inverter seemed to work fine - but the 3000 claimed the line voltage was 0. (it was perfectly happy running a calibration test, though) So, something is obviously bad in the 3000 too, probably something in the IU.

It would of course be wonderful if the IU and EU's of the 3000 and 5000 were interchangable, then I could at least get a working UPS. But no such luck of course.

So, what the heck am I to do?

I can't repair any of the units because APC does not provide schematics, or even a basic service manual that contained test points that a board-changer could use to at least do swapping, that is if APC would even sell replacement boards. Nor is it even possible to run the Matrix with the cladding off of it to troubleshoot it due to how it's constructed. The IU weighs a ton and the EU isn't much better and it seems rediculous to pay a couple hundred bucks to ship a 10-year-old UPS back to APC to have them repair it, if even they do such service work like this on these units still. The 3000 is particularly frustrating since it's obvious that something really close to the input power has been fried, and would probably be very easy to unsolder and replace. (I checked for burned components, no such luck) Buying another used Matrix off Ebay also seems stupid since it could arrive broken as well. And I don't want to leave the batteries unconnected for long while I spend the next 6 months haunting flea markets for another Matrix or they are going to sulphate. And why should I give up my LCD screen for a new RT to replace it, and we cannot afford a brand new 5000 Symmetra, and even if we could, a new UPS no matter what the model would come with new batteries so our 2.5 year old batteries that are perfectly good that we just barely finished paying for would have to be scrapped. And, in any case, we really don't need a 5000 with an hour runtime, since our generator spins up within 5 minutes, we need a 5000 with a 10 minute runtime.

My current thought is that my battery dealer happens to have some older used SmartUPS 5U 2000 and 3000VA UPSes with shot batteries that have an external battery connector, I was thinking of possibly pulling all the batteries out and setting up 2 of these with 2 batteries each, and just sitting the
batteries on top of the UPSes, and making up a cable. (the Matrix wants 48 volts, the smaller UPSes want 24 volts) It would look trailer trash, to be sure, and I'd have to putz with rewiring the feed line to 120v, but it might be a cheap way to at least extract the remaining years of life out of these expensive batteries, and when they finally die then buying the correct batteries that go inside the UPSes (assuming that we keep them) But, I'd love to hear suggestions - preferably suggestions like here's a warez site that some cracker has posted a real schematic for the Matrix, ha ha. Or, I have a broken 5000 in my basement and your welcome to it to scavenge parts off of it, he he he.

Back in the good old days when the only people buying UPSes also knew what the business end of a soldering iron was, you would get service literature. I've got a Minuteman 300 VA UPS dating from 1975 that came out of the box with a complete service manual, with test points, the thing is a joy to work on except that you can't run anything more than a TV set on it, it's so low powered. And it has a real steel case, imagine a steel case on a 300VA UPS. You don't see that anymore, ha ha! These days your lucky if the small UPSes actually have real screws that hold their plastic together.

Thanks!

[BillP]

Just to be clear, I'm guessing you used the same batteries that the 5000 claimed was bad with the 3000, which said the batteries were fine, but reported no input voltage? Or maybe swapped them with the 5000 that's working fine? I figured using the batts with a different unit would clearly identify if they were, in fact, bad - the Matrix units aren't very nice to their batteries, but some people get really good life out of them anyway.

I don't have any schematics or spare parts, of course, though I do know CBM does offer repair services on these units - and APC does not. So even if no one will give you any schematics, CBM should at least be able to repair these ones, though I'm not sure what they do in terms of shipping. Might be worth giving them a call: 888-234-9877

If you're gonna get new units though, you'd probably at least want to try to get the Trade-UPS discount - it includes free pickup of the old unit you want to get rid of, which in itself would probably save a decent chunk of money. And you can keep whatever batteries you want.

[Anonymous user · Accepted solution]

Well, we are on the west coast, so I checked and SacPower seems to be the
other only authorized APC repair center, they are in Sacramento - 800-441-1412.

They do repair these units but they won't admit over the phone that they do
board level repairs - but they also said APC does not supply boards for the Matrix
units any longer but that they would have to check their stock and see if they
had an inverter board in stock - and quoted a price of $600 for the repair. Which,
with my experience in the business, is enough to cover a board repair. So what
they are doing is either paying a service tech to do a board level repair - such people
aren't cheap nowdays - or they have a collection of old UPSes in their junkpile and
they probably can extract an inverter board from one of them. They did also
state that APC holds schematics and such really close to their vest. Which,
isn't a problem if your a top notch repair tech who can trace out schematics,
but it does in effect force the market to go the route of cannibalizing old units
for spare parts after APC decides to stop selling a particular line and replace it
with a new line. (since these units pricing isn't high enough to justify paying
someone to do that)

So, basically the price quote is along the lines of "we can do this but we really
don't want to, so we will quote you a price high enough to make you go away if
you know what your doing, and if you don't will pay for our tech to idle a few hours
away picking through our crap-pile"

Reading between the lines here, my 2 broken units are worth more as spare
parts than they are as functioning units.

So, I will do what I must - sell the 3000 at least on Ebay as a broken unit, where
it will be worth more to someone else who already has some broken units that need
fixing, and use the proceeds to buy several used UPSes that I can hack together
with the batteries, to last long enough until the batteries are worn out a few years
from now - hopefully by then the batteries in the other Matrix will be due for a change -
in which case we will have met our ROI on the batteries we bought a few years ago,
and can then sell the remaining Matrixes and get something nice.

And people wonder why the United States generates so much garbage and
fills up so many landfills every year! 😉