Double Conversion (Symmetra) and Surge Protection/EFI

[Anonymous user]

We are looking at purchasing: SYH6K6RMT-P1: APC Symmetra RM 6kVA Scalable to 6kVA N+1 208/240V w/208 to 120V Step-Down Transformer

I noticed the Symmetra (with Step-Down Transformer) doesn't claim to offer Surge Protection or filtering?

What is the best method to add this to a Symmetra UPS? OR is it not required because of the double conversion technology?

Or, is it just good practice to plug devices into surge protectors, then into the transformer (UPS) ?

Thanks.

[TheNotoriousKMP_apc]

KVar,

You're going to have to narrow that down. There is no isolation or step down transformer within the Symmetra Rack Mount.

[Anonymous user]

Kevin,

Is the transformer in that particular UPS a single winding auto-transformer or a dual winding galvanically isolated transformer?

KVAr

[Anonymous user]

It would be bundled with a 120V step-down transformer. The manual shows this model: http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=SYTF2 But it has been discontinued, so it may be this model: http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=AP9626

The product page for the Symmetra is here: http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=SYH6K6RMT%2DP1&total_watts=500

I talked to APC, and they assured me that Surge Protection and RFI filtering is not required before or after the UPS. He said because it is a double conversion device, the process eliminates any chance of surges or noise, and it produces a completely new pure sine wave.

Anybody have any comments regarding that?

Thanks.

[TheNotoriousKMP_apc]

I would love to know who you spoke to on our end so that they can receive a verbal lashing and maybe some better training. What if the UPS goes to bypass? If you have no EMI/RFI filtering or surge suppression due to a double-online UPS, and it goes to bypass, then that surge is going through the UPS straight to your equipment. Panel Mount Surge is still a great idea to even eliminate a point of entry surge to other devices.

[Anonymous user]

We are buying it through Dell, and apparently they have a direct number to sales technicians at APC or something. So a Dell rep called me, and then conferenced someone in from APC.

He did not warn me about bypass.

I asked him straight out if I needed to worry about surge supression on the protected side of the UPS and he said no.

But I guess you are right. But under what conditions will automatic bypass occur?

Thanks. Might be worth while investing in some Surge Arresters instead of standard PDUs.

As to the Panel Mount, we are budget constrained. That Sub-Panel strictly serves 2 other Line interactive UPSs. So we should be okay without Panel Mount protection.

Message was edited by: cwatkins

[TheNotoriousKMP_apc]

Cody,

Automatic bypass will occur any time there is a major fault, and the number of them to list is beyond what I can recall right now. I know for one, a common occurance is "overload bypass" where a power module fails, forcing your load % above 100% (unless you have an added Power Module for redundancy), and forcing it into bypass.

Regarding the surge arrests. You can't look at those since those are just pass throughs, not distributors. Therefore, you won't be able to monitor current flow, and can't ensure that device #5 on the surge arrest is receiving the same amount of power as device #1.

Unless the commercial building is in an area where surges take place quite frequently, you should be all set. Rarely do we ever experience calls regarding any type of damage sustained by a Symmetra to anyone's load.

[Anonymous user]

When you say we "are all set" what to you mean? We do not need to worry about surge protection for the Symmetra? Or we should use a surge arrest or power bar?

Thanks.

Edit: Should mention that no, we are not in an area where we get frequent surges.

Message was edited by: cwatkins

[TheNotoriousKMP_apc]

There is minimal surge suppression located within the Symmetra, enough that if you're in a low-problem area, it should be able to harness it. When you speak of a Surge-Arrest, the only Surge Arrests that APC sells are single phase 120V surge protectors. What I am speaking of is a Panelmount Surge.

[TheNotoriousKMP_apc · Accepted solution]

Commercial Surge Suppression Devices:

http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=175