Completely "turn off" UPS instead of "power off" outlets. Is it possible to do this remotely?

[BillP]

This question was originally posted by erdem on APC forums on 11/22/2013

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Hi.

Has APC Smart UPS capability to completely turn of UPS system via command set (serial or TCP/UDP)?.I means input and output of UPS will be entirely lost. I can imagine UPS outlets can be power off and on, that is fine, however I try to be sure whether it can be possible to turn off UPS itself.

Note: "completely turn off" means UPS is ready to be transported to anywhere or be stored, like emergency hard button (EPO) is pressed.

[voidstar_apc]

This was originally posted on APC forums on 11/26/2013

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I'm not clear on why the UPS needs to be completely off. Right now they're designed on the assumption that complete turnoff is only required for:

1) EPO and

2) maximizing battery runtime during a power outage.

What that second point means is you can turn the output off, disconnect the power plug, and the UPS will turn off after nine minutes.

For transport or storage, SmartUPSes have a battery disconnect that should be pulled. The battery will discharge faster if not disconnected, even when the UPS is completely off. And if you also disconnect the power cord, the UPS will be completely off.

[BillP]

This reply was originally posted by erdem on APC forums on 11/26/2013

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About the existing UPS; If you only turn outputs off, UPS FANS (this is an online UPS) are still working, which means that power consumption is still going on. In case off MAINS is available, as you said, they are functional forever. In this case UPS is in charge mode, so there is no problem.

At this moment, if MAINS is disconnected, FANS still continue to operate forever and don't turn off. Since FANS are still consumpting power, UPS will became discharged after some moment. This causes UPS to be not able to turn on again, because UPS has a property to close itself forever if charge value is below of some percentage (as I remember this value is %25 of full charge)

As I understood, APC UPS has property to completely shut down itself after 9 min, if there is no MAINS power. This can solve my problem.

What about this 9 min? At any instance in this duration, can it be possible to turn on and off UPS again, Assume that UPS has already turned off, MAINS has been disconnected and 5 minutes have already passed. At this moment, if MAINS is re-connected again, will UPS start to be charging and supply power for the system? Is it correct?

[voidstar_apc]

This was originally posted on APC forums on 11/26/2013

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erdemk wrote:
At this moment, if MAINS is disconnected, FANS still continue to operate forever and don't turn off. Since FANS are still consumpting power, UPS will became discharged after some moment. This causes UPS to be not able to turn on again, because UPS has a property to close itself forever if charge value is below of some percentage (as I remember this value is %25 of full charge)

Okay, so your concern is that without a command to turn the UPS off, it will fully discharge itself during a power outage. Makes sense. Has this happened?

As I understood, APC UPS has property to completely shut down itself after 9 min, if there is no MAINS power. This can solve my problem.

Right. After 9 minutes if there is no MAINS power and the output is off. We call this state "brain dead".

What about this 9 min? At any instance in this duration, can it be possible to turn on and off UPS again, Assume that UPS has already turned off, MAINS has been disconnected and 5 minutes have already passed. At this moment, if MAINS is re-connected again, will UPS start to be charging and supply power for the system? Is it correct?

During the 9 minutes, the UPS' output can be commanded back on by the Network Management Card. After 9 minutes of both power failure and output off, the UPS becomes "brain dead" and stops powering the Network Management Card so it can no longer be remotely commanded. Once power returns, the UPS will leave the "brain dead" state and resume charging the battery. Whether the UPS output also turns back on to supply power for the system depends on whether the output was "turned off" or "shutdown".

UPS output turn off => UPS output does not automatically turn back on

UPS output shutdown / reboot w/ ac present => UPS output turns back on when power returns and battery has charged enough to meet the minimum runtime setting.

[BillP]

This reply was originally posted by Angela on APC forums on 12/2/2013

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If mains has been restored somehow, perhaps a different switch - so the UPS is not braindead anymore because AC is present and it comes to life - then yes, we offer dry contacts in a few different forms - depending on the UPS model, it probably has an RJ-45 or DB-9 serial port that could be used. If a Network Management Card is present, preferably AP9631, you can add an AP9810 dry contact accessory to it. Lastly, we offer another full featured dry contact card with many more input contacts and outputs that purely just does dry contacts (AP9631).

[voidstar_apc]

This was originally posted on APC forums on 12/2/2013

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erdemk wrote:
"After 9 minutes of both power failure and output off, the UPS becomes "brain dead" and stops powering the Network Management Card so it can no longer be remotely commanded. Once power returns, the UPS will leave the "brain dead" state and resume charging the battery."
At this moment, (I mean MAINS came back, and UPS is charging battery), a HW "ON/Test" switch/button on UPS must be pressed to turn it on again as I guess. Remotely turning it on can not be performed, like Network Management Card, due to energy absence.

As Angela mentioned, once MAINS comes back, the UPS is no longer "brain dead" and should be able to be commanded by the NMC. And also, if the output was shutdown (not turned off), then once the battery is sufficiently charged, the output will turn back on automatically.

[BillP]

This reply was originally posted by erdem on APC forums on 11/22/2013

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Hi.

Has APC Smart UPS capability to completely turn of UPS system via command set (serial or TCP/UDP)?.I means input and output of UPS will be entirely lost. I can imagine UPS outlets can be power off and on, that is fine, however I try to be sure whether it can be possible to turn off UPS itself.

Note: "completely turn off" means UPS is ready to be transported to anywhere or be stored, like emergency hard button (EPO) is pressed.

[BillP]

This reply was originally posted by erdem on APC forums on 11/27/2013

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Case 1: MAINS on, UPS on, UPS outputs on: Load is supplied, power on mode

Shutdown process started.

Case 2: MAINS on, UPS on, UPS outputs off: Load is not supplied, shutdown mode.

Power on process started.

Case 3: MAINS on, UPS on, UPS outputs on: Load is supplied, power on mode.

MAINS disconnected

Case 4: MAINS off, UPS on, UPS outputs on: Load is supplied, power on mode.

Shutdown process started

Case 5: MAINS off, UPS on, UPS outputs off: Load is not supplied, shutdown mode.

UPS will turn off (brain dead) after 9 min. No problem during turn off mode.

Case 6: MAINS on, UPS off, UPS outputs off: Load is not supplied, turn off mode.

Power on process started.

Problem!!!! HW turn on switch/button must be pressed...

Is it possible to add such a dry contact on UPS connector panel to be able to immediately turn on and delayed shutdown UPS via a hw switch?

[BillP]

This reply was originally posted by Angela on APC forums on 11/22/2013

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It depends on the UPS models - some have an EPO to do this with, some do not. Through the management card, the most you can do is turn off the output.

Most offer a DB-9 or RJ-50 style serial port where you can turn the output off at a minimum. Dry contacts are also an option.

If you turn the output off (the outlets) via one of the methods I noted and cut the upstream power to the UPS, this condition (what we call braindead) will also occur within to 8-10 minutes of the UPS sitting with no AC input.

If you have a specific model/SKU, I can tell you for sure what capability it supports.

[voidstar_apc]

This was originally posted on APC forums on 11/27/2013

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erdemk wrote:
Case 4: MAINS off, UPS on, UPS outputs on: Load is supplied, power on mode.
Shutdown process started

Okay, since this is a "Shutdown" and not "Turn off", the output will turn back on once MAINS is on and the battery is sufficiently charged.

Case 5: MAINS off, UPS on, UPS outputs off: Load is not supplied, shutdown mode.
UPS will turn off (brain dead) after 9 min. No problem during turn off mode.
Case 6: MAINS on, UPS off, UPS outputs off: Load is not supplied, turn off mode.
Power on process started.

If MAINS is on and the EPO has not been triggered, then the UPS will be on. So case 6 should be:

Case 6: MAINS on, UPS on, UPS outputs off while runtime < minimum return runtime. Load is not supplied.

... after charging battery so runtime > minimum return runtime ...

Case 7: MAINS on, UPS on, UPS outputs on. Load is supplied.

[BillP · Accepted solution]

This reply was originally posted by erdem on APC forums on 11/28/2013

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"After 9 minutes of both power failure and output off, the UPS becomes "brain dead" and stops powering the Network Management Card so it can no longer be remotely commanded. Once power returns, the UPS will leave the "brain dead" state and resume charging the battery."

At this moment, (I mean MAINS came back, and UPS is charging battery), a HW "ON/Test" switch/button on UPS must be pressed to turn it on again as I guess. Remotely turning it on can not be performed, like Network Management Card, due to energy absence.

My question at this point is that APC UPSs have opportunity to carry this HW "ON/Test" switch/button to connector panel as a dry contact which can be opened/closed from a remote site (may be over a relay)? Assume that UPS is installed into a cabinet (where access to UPS is not easy) and the control of this cabinet  have to be done via a control panel (remote site).