AVR Trim voltage question

[BillP]

replaced my broken powerware ups today, so far semi happy, it says you can select the output voltage but doesnt say only for battery!

so its humming away outputting 251 volts, so what the pc still works so all is good. i miss my powerware now as it outputted whatever you told it to regardless.

problem is if the APC trips to AVR Trim the voltage drops to 220, am i stuck with this or is there an option i cant see for looking to get it up to 230 ?

its a smt2200i, made 3 months ago so seems to be running the only firmware as there is no update on the website.

seems a bit strange the trim drops below the selected voltage.

i have set the power quality to reduced for now to try and slow it down without upping the trigger voltage. not an ideal solution as i brought this to give a stable protected output to some very high end gaming computer and network storage. i cant see a drop of 30 volts being good for it though.

[BillP]

you dont seem to understand, the console window will not allow any input at all, if i press 1 nothing shows, i have tried that 1 followed by 1 again and nothing happens, no input, no return


and battery mode works fine at 240 volts.

its just the dang trim.

Message was edited by: GoNz0

[BillP]

Hi,

I'm sorry. But actually the Program mode can work in all smart UPS, I have never experience before. Some time you need 9600bps or difference.

Can you help adjust the speed up 2400 - 4800 ... 384000 ?

This program mode also useful in battery replacement.If it's can make the Smart Mode, your UPS will dead ready.
After connect you enter
1. Enter Y (UPS should respond SM); --> go to this mode first

2. Enter 1 (one, not el; wait 2-4 seconds);

3. Enter 1 (one, not el; UPS should respond PROG); --> go to program mode

4. Enter command code (o, l ...)

5. Enter + (plus) or - (minus) to increment/decrement the value;

6. Enter Esc to exit terminal mode;

Anyway, you can bring the unit to service center, they will calib to you.


Regards

Message was edited by: trinhkhai79

[BillP]

that explains it then, i am used to using putty but got no responce with the 2200i

[BillP]

I am starting to get fed up with the tech support avoiding a direct answer to my questions, end of the day the unit is trimming to EU not Uk voltage, obviously an issue that been missed or the wrong trim tap (if it has one) set to output 220 EU volts instead of 230 UK volts.

i wonder what tomorrows reply will bring, they were coming thick and fast but as i dig deeper the reply doesn't hit until 5pm when they head home for the night.

I am trying to avoid the phone for fear of losing my rag at the poor sod who takes my call and doesn't give a straight answer.


they have now played me so i am out of the 7 day DSR return window so i appear stuck with this.

I miss my powerware 9125 😞

[voidstar_apc]

>
i wonder what tomorrows reply will bring, they were coming thick and fast but as i dig deeper the reply doesn't hit until 5pm when they head home for the night.
>

I hope you're not talking about us! None of the people on this thread are APC tech support. If it turns out you need an RMA, then phone's the way to go.

Hopefully it's just an issue of configuration not matching expectations.

The SmartUPS allows configuring the allowed output voltage range, which is sometimes also called transfer points. The default range on the unit I have for 230V output is from 207V to 253V (not exact, there's also some hysteresis). This is what the designers considered a safe range for 230V equipment.

If you would like a tighter range, there's three ways to adjust it:
1) The LCD display: under configuration, set menu type to advanced. You should be able to adjust High Transfer and Low Transfer, also under configuration.
2) Install PowerChute Business Edition and use that to adjust the transfer points.
3) (My personal very biased favorite) Use the network management card to adjust the output limits.

Hope that helps.

[BillP]

oh no not anyone on this thread, i have been in contact with apc mail support, the 9-5 shift who have been very indirect in answering my questions.

after asking for an answer to the designated voltage when the unit clicks into trim i got this reply after stating trim is 20 volts lower than i have battery voltage set to

The output from the UPS should be within 230V. When the unit is running on trim the output can change, but it should not be equal to the voltage that it is trimming to. If the mains voltage is above 12% of 230V, it will try to "trim it down" so that the equipments plugged in the device continue working properly as it should be.

It cannot be changed manually on the UPS, by using a software or using the LCD screen interface in the front panel.

What you can do is to change the quality of the mains that you are using, and adjust the transfer sensitivity settings from the configuration menu of the UPS.

my reply to that is the following

>
so, at the risk of getting the straight answer i am after.

if the voltage hits 254 volts should it trim to 230 volts or 220 as i
am unable to comprehend why your designers would allow it to trim so
low ? it would seem its trimming to EU not UK voltage and in my
opinion is a mistake that needs correcting by either an engineer visit
to fix the problem or a unit sent out that trims to the correct
voltage. ie UK mains voltage not EU mains voltage.

as from next tuesday i am off work for 9 days so i would prefer to
have a unit giving voltage within specs in that time frame and not
told to turn off the feature of the UPS to allow a dirty signal
through, i didnt spend all that money to turn off all the features and
be left with EU voltage when a problem happens.

as you can imagine i am getting a little fed up now.

its seems someone dropped a testicle with trim at EU not UK voltage.

[voidstar_apc]

My mistake, your tech support person is right: the low transfer point is configurable, but you can't make it any higher than 207V while operating at 230V.

Is there a reason you need tight voltage regulation? Computer power supplies don't care, and if you really do need a tighter trim, then you'd have to use a double-conversion UPS much like your older Powerware or APC's SmartUPS Online products. Double conversion UPSes are nice, but they're more expensive and less efficient than the one you have.

[BillP]

it really is nothing to do with the transfer point, more to do with the voltage it swaps to, i find the huge drop of 35 volts excessive.

[BillP]

Again, as voidstar said, the UPS is designed to meet the international standards of power supplies. While you may find the change in voltage to be excessive, the power supply is fine with the supplied UPS output.

[voidstar_apc]

>
it really is nothing to do with the transfer point, more to do with the voltage it swaps to,
>

What the 207V transfer point means is that the voltage could drop down to 208 or 209V before the UPS starts boosting the voltage. It represents the lower end of the acceptable output voltage range. So while your immediate concern is the drop to 220V when trimming, this is well within what the UPS considers an acceptable output voltage.

>
i find the huge drop of 35 volts excessive.
>

Hopefully you're not plugged into the UPS 🙂 I think your equipment will have no problem with the +/-10% voltage regulation in your SmartUPS, but I don't want to trivialize your concern so if it's an issue for you, then double conversion online UPSes are the way to go.

[BillP]

the support guys is a dick who has lead me down the garden path for over a week only answering a direct question with an indirect answer at closing time every day.

finally i got the answer that the trim voltage is correct (he could have said this day one)

so now i have to lodge a formal complaint as i am out of the 7 day DSR window thanks to this twerp.

this UPS had better save me some money on my electric bill compared to the powerware 9125 online i had before!

[dario_ramos_apc]

If you need a stabilized output voltage of 230V +/- 2% I think you choose the wrong UPS.
APC SMTs, like SUAs, are what is called interactive sinusoidal UPSs and, when they are stabilizing mains input, they do it through steps. They apply the adequate step of voltage when output goes out of limits. So, its inherent to it's characteristics to present an output voltage between -/+10% of nominal voltage. Also you have to tolerate step voltages from Vnom-10% to Vnom+10%.
If a very tight tolerance in the output voltage is a must, you have to use an online UPS. APC online UPSs are SURT series.
In these UPSs output voltage is permanently done by the inverter from an internal DC voltage bus that is feed from mains or batteries. Because of this, output voltage is completely independent from mains voltage and precisely stabilized.

[BillP]

yes i understand this now but my concern is the sheer amout of needless trim it applies, dropping from 254 volts to 220 is not a drop of 10% leading me to think this is not a very good ups or it is faulty, if it dropped 10% it should output 227 volts, and i could live with that.

its a shame it does not say this on the website or i would not have brought it, i would have sourced an online ups if i knew it would drop that many volts.

I did not think i needed the protection of an online ups as i though something that costs this much would be able to do a decent job.

the voltage drop is nearly 14% not 10% as i would have expected.

[dario_ramos_apc]

Hi
You didn't understand exactly what I said:
"Also you have to tolerate step voltages from Vnom-10% to Vnom+10%"
So, I said not that you have step voltages of 10% but 20% of the nominal voltage.

I don't know exactly if the values are these because, as you say, APC docs are not technical. But the working principle is this.

I'm not an APC guy. I'm trying only to help you to understand how it works.

I would like some APC guy could help you with the exact values. Probably will not happen because the boss doesn't like technical discussions.

[BillP]

yes, thanks for the input, lets hope a rep of APC lets me know what the specs are for trim voltages before my 7 day return period is up.

[BillP]

Hi,

It's not complete true as last comment.
I'm not APC guy anymore since became the M&E partner of Schneider only. But with my experience is

1. Your Smart UPS may be not have correct calibration

-You can go to Smart Mode via Hyperterminal and go to Program mode and calib again the Output Voltage 230V on Lineinteractive Mode. It's quite precise Voltage.

How to go smart mode please go thrugh this guide line:
http://grox.net/man/ups/apcsmart.html

or http://osdir.com/ml/monitoring.nut.user/2007-01/msg00120.html


Use command " l"
You need an true RMS Power Meter to do the caliberation

- Select the output 230V (in On Battery mode).- To match with Lin interactive Mode.

Use command "o" with +/-


Or you can ask the service guy do the calibration for you , if you need.

If it's not be calibrate, the Line interactive mode Voltage Output so much difference with Battery Mode.


2. Your Smart UPS may be low sensitive
On the back side of UPS, you will see the small pin with small led call "Sensitive". If the Led On, your UPS so high sensitive : all harmonic and low/high voltage will be not tranfer, UPS will run on Battery mode when condition meet.

The LED is on but weak light : medium sensitive, harmonic can pass but low /high is not.

The LED is off. Low sensitive. Only too low or two high voltage, the UPS will be transfer to Bat.

My suggetion : use medium.

[BillP]

I am unable to do anything in hyperterminal, it opens, blinks a cursor and thats it. no input allowed 😞

just to add on battery it outputs bang on 240 volts, its just trim mode that drops to 220 volts ?

i wonder if i need a lagacy card to get serial connection working ?

live chat are not much use, they connect say hello and never reply again :@

Message was edited by: GoNz0

[BillP]

Hi,

You log to smart mode incorrect way. Tried to follow exact this instruction.
http://www.jjoseph.org/notes/apc_smartups_battery_float_voltage

After you go thru. Use the command as last time.

Regards

[voidstar_apc · Accepted solution]

>
Hi,

I'm sorry. But actually the Program mode can work in all smart UPS, I have never experience before. Some time you need 9600bps or difference.
>

The newest UPSes (SMT and SMX models) use a Microlink protocol rather than UPSLink. GoNz0 says he has an SMT2200i, so it's not surprising that UPSLink commands don't work.