Help
  • Explore Community
  • Get Started
  • Ask the Community
  • How-To & Best Practices
  • Contact Support
Notifications
Login / Register
Community
Community
Notifications
close
  • Forums
  • Knowledge Center
  • Events & Webinars
  • Ideas
  • Blogs
Help
Help
  • Explore Community
  • Get Started
  • Ask the Community
  • How-To & Best Practices
  • Contact Support
Login / Register
Sustainability
Sustainability

Join our "Ask Me About" community webinar on May 20th at 9 AM CET and 5 PM CET to explore cybersecurity and monitoring for Data Center and edge IT. Learn about market trends, cutting-edge technologies, and best practices from industry experts.
Register and secure your Critical IT infrastructure

M580 DTM browser - allow changes online

Modicon Ideas & new features

Have ideas on how to improve Modicon? Please share and get votes from Community to influence development efforts.

cancel
Turn on suggestions
Auto-suggest helps you quickly narrow down your search results by suggesting possible matches as you type.
Showing results for 
Show  only  | Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
  • Home
  • Schneider Electric Community
  • Industrial Automation
  • Modicon Ideas & new features
  • M580 DTM browser - allow changes online
Options
  • Subscribe to RSS Feed
  • Mark as New
  • Mark as Read
  • Bookmark
  • Subscribe
  • Email to a Friend
  • Printer Friendly Page
  • Report Inappropriate Content
Invite a Co-worker
Send a co-worker an invite to the portal.Just enter their email address and we'll connect them to register. After joining, they will belong to the same company.
You have entered an invalid email address. Please re-enter the email address.
This co-worker has already been invited to the Exchange portal. Please invite another co-worker.
Please enter email address
Send Invite Cancel
Invitation Sent
Your invitation was sent.Thanks for sharing Exchange with your co-worker.
Send New Invite Close
Labels
Top Labels
  • Alphabetical
  • 06. EcoStruxure Control Expert 40
  • 02. Modicon M580 ePAC 19
  • 05. Networking & Communication 11
  • 01. Modicon M340 PAC 7
  • 04. Modicon X80 IO 3
  • 03. Modicon PAC Safety 2
  • 12. Other 2
  • 08. Tools & Resources 1
  • 07. Modicon PAC Legacy 1
  • 09. Surveys 1
  • 10. Australia 1
Idea Statuses
  • Submitted 44
  • Needs more info 0
  • Under consideration 2
  • Accepted 3
  • Declined 0
  • To be deleted 0
  • Delivered 1
Related Products
Thumbnail of Modicon M580
Schneider Electric
Modicon M580
7
Thumbnail of EcoStruxure™ Control Expert
Schneider Electric
EcoStruxure™ Control Expert
6
Thumbnail of Modicon M340
Schneider Electric
Modicon M340
2
Load more
Completed Ideas
  • EcoStruxure Control Expert - DTM Update Tool

View All

Invite a Colleague

Found this content useful? Share it with a Colleague!

Invite a Colleague Invite
11 Likes

M580 DTM browser - allow changes online

Status: Accepted Submitted by Lieutenant dnordenberg1 on ‎2022-10-24 11:59 PM
8 Comments (8 New)

Hi!

Using the M580 DTM browser it slightly frustrating since even the slightest change like adding or renaming a generic modbus TCP variable in a request results in a build offline requirement.

I can understand that when changing modbus addresses or RD/WR lengths triggers a build offline but working within a already defined request should definitely be allowed with online change.

I'm thinking about how this worked in the older Premium/M340 system where defining something in the I/O scanner triggered a offline build but once the data was in the %MW area you could do what you want with it using normal program changes online.

In a large plant you don't want PLC stops all the time for even the smallest communication changes so in this manner I think the M580 way is a huge step backwards and makes it very hard to use a M580 for a larger plant.

So I would like to propose that doing changes inside a already defined modbus request should be allowed using just a online build of the changes.

Maybe it could be done using a slightly extended program/task cycle like some other PLC manufacturers do bigger changes instead of forcing a complete program stop?

Tags (1)
  • Find more ideas tagged with:
  • english
Labels (3)
See more ideas labeled with:
  • 02. Modicon M580 ePAC
  • 05. Networking & Communication
  • 06. EcoStruxure Control Expert
Comment

Link copied. Please paste this link to share this article on your social media post.

  • Back to Idea Exchange
  • Previous
  • Next
8 Comments
Mnabil
Lieutenant JG Mnabil Lieutenant JG
Lieutenant JG
‎2022-10-25 12:50 AM
  • Mark as Read
  • Mark as New
  • Bookmark
  • Permalink
  • Print
  • Email to a Friend
  • Report Inappropriate Content
‎2022-10-25 12:50 AM

Hello dnordenberg1 

what you mentioned is one of the disadvantages of DTM with M580 , but you can use read_Var or write_var functions which are very efficient besides the possibility of the online change

dnordenberg1
Lieutenant dnordenberg1
Lieutenant
‎2022-10-25 01:14 AM
  • Mark as Read
  • Mark as New
  • Bookmark
  • Permalink
  • Print
  • Email to a Friend
  • Report Inappropriate Content
‎2022-10-25 01:14 AM

Yes of course I know that but having to manually code the communication is not a modern and user friendly way of doing it 😞 I use these for handling single "one of a kind" devices which might require modbus functions other than 3/16/23. When dealing with like 50 equal inverters I don't want to do it with 2x FB for each. And I don't think the efficiency of using those come close to using the I/O scanning/DTM browser either.

Trinxs1
Lt. Commander Trinxs1 Lt. Commander
Lt. Commander
‎2023-03-09 03:14 AM
  • Mark as Read
  • Mark as New
  • Bookmark
  • Permalink
  • Print
  • Email to a Friend
  • Report Inappropriate Content
‎2023-03-09 03:14 AM

@dnordenberg1 and @Mnabil Another approach is to use READ_remote and write_remote.  These are tag based function blocks rather than memory based operations.  It is limited to 500 words per instruction, but you could create an array of inverters and read one array provided the structure was the same at the source and the destination and it was less that 500 words in size.

http://www.se.com/ww/en/download/document/33002527K01000 is the reference manual for communications which includes these new instructions.

 

It is also possible to make changes to DTMs (add, remove or modify) in a hot standby system. The initial configuration must include HSBY_BUILD_OFFLINE function block in the first section of logic and the parameters must not be exchanged via the hot standby link. 

two references:  

http://www.se.com/ww/en/download/document/33002539K01000 - ECE system function blocks

http://www.se.com/ww/en/download/document/NHA58880 - M580 hot standby 

 

dnordenberg1
Lieutenant dnordenberg1
Lieutenant
‎2023-03-09 03:22 AM
  • Mark as Read
  • Mark as New
  • Bookmark
  • Permalink
  • Print
  • Email to a Friend
  • Report Inappropriate Content
‎2023-03-09 03:22 AM

Does this scale well, reading 150 devices on a larger plant?

Trinxs1
Lt. Commander Trinxs1 Lt. Commander
Lt. Commander
‎2023-03-09 03:41 AM
  • Mark as Read
  • Mark as New
  • Bookmark
  • Permalink
  • Print
  • Email to a Friend
  • Report Inappropriate Content
‎2023-03-09 03:41 AM
Status changed to: Accepted

This feature has been allocated to Ecostruxure Control Expert V17.0.  It will be synchronized with the release of the next generation of ethernet IO.

Trinxs1
Lt. Commander Trinxs1 Lt. Commander
Lt. Commander
‎2023-03-09 03:54 AM
  • Mark as Read
  • Mark as New
  • Bookmark
  • Permalink
  • Print
  • Email to a Friend
  • Report Inappropriate Content
‎2023-03-09 03:54 AM

It can scale you have the ability to allocate 14 variables to the one function block.  Each variable would be one drive.  It would be possible to use 8 instructions for 60 drives (4 read and 4 write) and 12 instructions for 180 drives.  More manageable than read_Var write_var but it has its limits.

 

dnordenberg1
Lieutenant dnordenberg1
Lieutenant
‎2023-03-09 04:06 AM
  • Mark as Read
  • Mark as New
  • Bookmark
  • Permalink
  • Print
  • Email to a Friend
  • Report Inappropriate Content
‎2023-03-09 04:06 AM

I also have like 20 STB and other similar remote IOs so 14 variables is way to limited 😞

We solved this by not using the scanned variable naming at all and just read the data from the "Free" tree on each remote device. But still you have to rebuild everything when adding a new device or removing one 😞

 

Is this V17 functionality limited to this new generation remote IO or will it be available across the whole DTM browser usage for any ethernet/IP or modbus TCP device?

ciupol
Lieutenant ciupol
Lieutenant
‎2024-02-07 11:03 AM
  • Mark as Read
  • Mark as New
  • Bookmark
  • Permalink
  • Print
  • Email to a Friend
  • Report Inappropriate Content
‎2024-02-07 11:03 AM
@Trinxs1  wrote:

@dnordenberg1 and @Mnabil Another approach is to use READ_remote and write_remote.  These are tag based function blocks rather than memory based operations.  It is limited to 500 words per instruction, but you could create an array of inverters and read one array provided the structure was the same at the source and the destination and it was less that 500 words in size.

 

http://www.se.com/ww/en/download/document/33002527K01000 is the reference manual for communications which includes these new instructions.


Can you elaborate a little more how can I read/write from third party devices using those blocks. I thought those blocks are only used for data exchange between CPUs. How would one read from inverter? What would be the variable names in the inverter that you would put as an input to the block?

I looked in the linked manual and I do not see anything about it.

Comment
Preview Exit Preview

never-displayed

Hint:
@ links to members, content
 
  • Back to Idea Exchange
  • Previous
  • Next
To The Top!

Forums

  • APC UPS Data Center Backup Solutions
  • EcoStruxure IT
  • EcoStruxure Geo SCADA Expert
  • Metering & Power Quality
  • Schneider Electric Wiser

Knowledge Center

Events & webinars

Ideas

Blogs

Get Started

  • Ask the Community
  • Community Guidelines
  • Community User Guide
  • How-To & Best Practice
  • Experts Leaderboard
  • Contact Support
Brand-Logo
Subscribing is a smart move!
You can subscribe to this board after you log in or create your free account.
Forum-Icon

Create your free account or log in to subscribe to the board - and gain access to more than 10,000+ support articles along with insights from experts and peers.

Register today for FREE

Register Now

Already have an account? Login

Terms & Conditions Privacy Notice Change your Cookie Settings © 2025 Schneider Electric

This is a heading

With achievable small steps, users progress and continually feel satisfaction in task accomplishment.

Usetiful Onboarding Checklist remembers the progress of every user, allowing them to take bite-sized journeys and continue where they left.

of