Welcome to the new Schneider Electric Community

It's your place to connect with experts and peers, get continuous support, and share knowledge.

  • Explore the new navigation for even easier access to your community.
  • Bookmark and use our new, easy-to-remember address (community.se.com).
  • Get ready for more content and an improved experience.

Contact SchneiderCommunity.Support@se.com if you have any questions.

Close
Invite a Co-worker
Send a co-worker an invite to the Exchange portal.Just enter their email address and we’ll connect them to register. After joining, they will belong to the same company.
Send Invite Cancel
84484members
353703posts

Questions on the new PM8000 series meter

Metering & Power Quality

Collaborate with multiple experts and discuss various topics about Power Meters and Power Quality. From design & implementation to troubleshooting and more, get support from experts and share your experiences by subscribing to the Schneider Electric Exchange forum today.

Solved
sesa154004_brid
Schneider Alumni (Retired)
Schneider Alumni (Retired)
14
1563

Questions on the new PM8000 series meter

Hi SEC Experts,

Two questions on the PM8000 meter:

1. Does it allow us to daisy chain othr PM8000 meters via Ethernet?

2. Does the PQ features available on the PM8000 replace the PQ functionality of the ION7650?

Please let me know.

Thank you,

Chindhu

Tags (2)

Accepted Solutions
sesa64419
Schneider Alumni (Retired)
Schneider Alumni (Retired)
13
1142

Re: Questions on the new PM8000 series meter

Hi Chindhu

1. The PM8000 has the same dual Ethernet port function as the PM5500 series meters. So you can daisy-chain multiple PM8000 using the Ethernet connections.

2. The PM8000 does not have all of the PQ features of the ION7650 but it has a lot. It does not have flicker, but it does have disturbance direction detection and sag/swell for voltage and currents. It has 4-30 class S. It measures voltage and current harmonics and THD as per IEC 61557-12 +/- 2%.

Hope this helps,

Alana

See Answer In Context

14 Replies 14
sesa64419
Schneider Alumni (Retired)
Schneider Alumni (Retired)
13
1143

Re: Questions on the new PM8000 series meter

Hi Chindhu

1. The PM8000 has the same dual Ethernet port function as the PM5500 series meters. So you can daisy-chain multiple PM8000 using the Ethernet connections.

2. The PM8000 does not have all of the PQ features of the ION7650 but it has a lot. It does not have flicker, but it does have disturbance direction detection and sag/swell for voltage and currents. It has 4-30 class S. It measures voltage and current harmonics and THD as per IEC 61557-12 +/- 2%.

Hope this helps,

Alana

sesa56307_bridg
Lieutenant JG Lieutenant JG
Lieutenant JG

Re: Questions on the new PM8000 series meter

Hi Chindhu,

Alana's response covered most points very well.

Here are a few other power quality features that are present on the ION7650 but not on the PM8000:

-Transient detection not supported on PM8000

-Waveform capture sampling rate of 1024 samples/cycle (PM8000 provides 256 samples/cycle today)

-IEC 61000-4-30:

   -ION7650 is Class A, PM8000 is Class S as Alana mentioned

   -Several parameters not supported on PM8000, including flicker, interharmonics, mains signaling and under/overdeviation

I hope this additional information helps.

David

sesa50168
Schneider Alumni (Retired)
Schneider Alumni (Retired)
0 Likes
5
1143

Re: Questions on the new PM8000 series meter


Hi Chindhu -

Just to add to the others, I'll also point out the the PM8000 supports RSTP (Rapid Spanning Tree Protocol) which allows you to take advantage of the Ethernet daisy chaining to create a redundant network loop.

In short, the ION7650 is an excellent high end PQ meter, and the PM8000 is appropriate for the next level down in your metering hierarchy.

sesa154004_brid
Schneider Alumni (Retired)
Schneider Alumni (Retired)
0 Likes
0
1143

Re: Questions on the new PM8000 series meter

Thank you everyone for all your help. This helps me out a lot.

sesa252887_brid
Schneider Alumni (Retired)
Schneider Alumni (Retired)
0 Likes
1
1143

Re: Questions on the new PM8000 series meter

Hi

I was under the impression that PM8000 supports interharmonics in previous communication.

Can you clarify this?

Thanks

Abon

sesa50168
Schneider Alumni (Retired)
Schneider Alumni (Retired)
0 Likes
0
1143

Re: Questions on the new PM8000 series meter

Hi Abon -

Interharmonics is functionality found in a high end PQ meter, such as the ION7650.  The PM8000 does not support interharmonics.

sesa252887_brid
Schneider Alumni (Retired)
Schneider Alumni (Retired)
0 Likes
0
1143

Re: Questions on the new PM8000 series meter

Hi Alana,

Recently I've received inquiries for flicker detection and found PM8000 does not include that.

Since flicker is included in EN50160,I'm confused about our EN50160 support in PM8000.

Could you help to clarify?

Thanks

@Eli Liao

-Abon

sesa108575_brid
Ensign Ensign
Ensign
0 Likes
1
1143

Re: Questions on the new PM8000 series meter

Hi John

What is the maximum number of PM8240 meters can be connected in the Ethernet daisy chaining in redundant network loop? I knew some RSTP Supported device only support up to 15 daisy chaining.

Thanks

Jacky Lau

James_Clark
Schneider Alumni (Retired)
Schneider Alumni (Retired)

Re: Questions on the new PM8000 series meter

Jacky,

We have not established limits for using the PM8000 with RSTP protocol, but there are some guidelines from our automation group (Industry BU) used for PLCs.   In order to ensure predictable recovery time for the RSTP ring, they recommend no more than 32 devices in a daisy-chain.   There are several parameters that impact this, but a key one is the Max Age parameter.  The automation group recommends the Max Age parameter be set to 40.   Limiting a daisy-chain to 32 devices provides some buffer to this parameter and helps ensure predictable ring recovery.

We will create some guidelines around deploying RSTP with power meters in the near future.  For sure, they will be well aligned with the recommendations from our automation group to ensure interoperability of all Schneider Electric systems.   

You may want to check out the "ConneXium Managed Switch Redundancy Configuration User Manual", Chapter 5, for more information on RSTP.   http://download.schneider-electric.com/files?p_File_Id=689552890&p_File_Name=ConneXium-TCSESM_-TCSES...

conradvr_hexeis
Lieutenant JG
Lieutenant JG
0 Likes
4
1143

Re: Questions on the new PM8000 series meter

Hi Alana,

Where can we find the documentation about the implementation of sag/swell for currents?  I want to understand how and what this function does.

sesa64419
Schneider Alumni (Retired)
Schneider Alumni (Retired)
0 Likes
3
1143

Re: Questions on the new PM8000 series meter

Hi Conrad

Exact implementation is not my expertise, but the current sag/swell detection is done through a pair of Disturbance Analyzer modules (one for sag, one for swell). If you want information on the Disturbance Analyzer module, it is described in the ION Reference.

You can also get information about the specific configuration of the current sag/swell detecting Disturbance Analyzer modules in the ION Device Template Reference compiled by the software development team.

You can get the ION Reference here:

http://www.schneider-electric.com/ww/en/download/document/70002-0290?showAsIframe=true

You can get the ION Device Template Reference here:

http://www.schneider-electric.com/ww/en/download/document/ION_Device_Templates_Reference_70090-0017?...

Hope this helps,

Alana

conradvr_hexeis
Lieutenant JG
Lieutenant JG
0 Likes
2
1143

Re: Questions on the new PM8000 series meter

Thanks Alana. I am familiar with the ION reference so that helps a lot.

It would help a lot of the documentation gave more functional description

of the factory standard alarms so we don't need to look at the source code

to reverse engineer.

Regards,

Conrad van Rooyen

B.E. (C.S.E.) | R.P.E.Q.

P 1300 439 347 | M +61 419 410 854 | F 1800 439 347 | conradvr@hexeis.com |

www.hexeis.com

hExeis Pty Ltd

ABN: 85 134 765 576

Unit 11, 720 Macarthur Avenue Cn

Pinkenba Qld 4008

PO BOX 154

Pinkenba Qld

Australia 4008

Disclaimer: This email and all attachments ("E-mail") are confidential . If

you have received this E-mail in error please immediately contact us and

delete the E-mail and all copies. No warranty is made that this E-mail free

from viruses, errors or defects and it is the recipient's responsibility to

establish its own protection against viruses and other damage. If this

E-mail does not relate to the business of hExeis, it does not represent the

views of hExeis or related entities.

On 25 March 2016 at 00:54, Alana Clarke <

sesa64419
Schneider Alumni (Retired)
Schneider Alumni (Retired)
0 Likes
1
1143

Re: Questions on the new PM8000 series meter

Hi Conrad

Thanks for the feedback about our documentation. Could you help me understand what it is that you are trying to configure for the current sag/swell detection that requires reverse engineering? We do document how to configure the voltage and current sag/swell detection using ION Setup and what the different parameters mean ("Configuring waveform recording using ION Setup", page 103 of the PM8000 user manual 7EN02-0336-01) .

We define the pickup, dropoff and nominals that need to be configured for sag/swell detection, as well as the parameters for waveform recording.

sag-swell-param.png

What additional information is needed for your application?

Your help in understanding how our product is used, and what information is needed, is really helpful. Thank you for your help.

cheers,

Alana

conradvr_hexeis
Lieutenant JG
Lieutenant JG
0 Likes
0
1143

Re: Questions on the new PM8000 series meter

Hi Alana,

Thanks I hadn't found this page when doing a search for more hits on

Current Sag. As we are very familiar with the IONSETUP, ION modules and

the voltage sag/swell function I didn't read this chapter on using ION

Setup. We have implemented Current Sag/Swell functions on other IONs so

this was of interest how it had actually been implemented.

Regards,

Conrad van Rooyen

B.E. (C.S.E.) | R.P.E.Q.

P 1300 439 347 | M +61 419 410 854 | F 1800 439 347 | conradvr@hexeis.com |

www.hexeis.com

hExeis Pty Ltd

ABN: 85 134 765 576

Unit 11, 720 Macarthur Avenue Cn

Pinkenba Qld 4008

PO BOX 154

Pinkenba Qld

Australia 4008

Disclaimer: This email and all attachments ("E-mail") are confidential . If

you have received this E-mail in error please immediately contact us and

delete the E-mail and all copies. No warranty is made that this E-mail free

from viruses, errors or defects and it is the recipient's responsibility to

establish its own protection against viruses and other damage. If this

E-mail does not relate to the business of hExeis, it does not represent the

views of hExeis or related entities.

On 30 March 2016 at 01:36, Alana Clarke <