DDF support

[DCIM_Support]

Hello, 

I have tried using Modbus ddf files for Stulz C7000 & for WIB 8000 through the MODBUS/TCP device. Problem is I can˙t see anything. I need SNMP DDF for WIB 8000 or C7000, but as I could see it is still not done. I have attached MIB file, so please convert it. I need this ASAP.

Thanks in advance.

StulzWIB8000_v200.mib

(CID:132653853)

[DCIM_Support]

Dear Boris Majdandzic,

Yes, only Modbus DDF-files are ready for your cooling devices. These Modbus DDF-files are not suitable for SNMP devices.

Therefore, if you have a MIB-file and a snmpwalk-file (made according to instruction How to create a SNMP walk file for Struxureware Expert/InfraStruXure Central.), you need to create a Request modification on the Device Support resource for your devices, for example:

I hope this helps you.

With respect.

(CID:132653952)

[DCIM_Support]

Also, check if snmp is enabled on WIB & try restart it. 

(CID:132670467)

[DCIM_Support · Accepted solution]

Hi,

As I can see in the past people were asking for SNMP DDF for Stulz C7000.

Now I can see that the process is taking quite some time & effort to get the right ddf file that may or may not work.

MODBUS version is not working with Schneider gateway T1000. 

I will have to use what I can because of the deadlines, but for the future reference, how can I enter IP adress in snmp walk file if I don`t know it?

Why can`t I use MIB files like in every open source software?

(CID:132654231)

[DCIM_Support]

Dear Boris Majdandzic,

...MODBUS version is not working with Schneider gateway T1000.

For some reason I can not find on the Internet a specification for this type gateway of Schneider Electric. Please provide a web-link to this gateway.

I will have to use what I can because of the deadlines, but for the future reference, how can I enter IP adress in snmp walk file if I don`t know it?

Why can`t I use MIB files like in every open source software?

Because the MIB-file – is a universal file for a whole series of similar devices (developed by device vendor). That is, in your particular device, only some part of this MIB-file can be implemented. This is normal practice. That's why you need a snmpwalk-file from your real device, so that the DDF team can determine exactly what needs to be implemented in the SNMP DDF-file. As a result, the SNMP DDF-file is of acceptable size, simple and reliable. Believe my practical experience of developing such DDF-files.

With respect.

(CID:132654247)

[DCIM_Support]

So now I can just ask & hope for ddf file to be created in 2 months as I can see here on site & pay penalties because we decided to use DCO & DCE system? 

I am using OID addresses & values are X10. As I can see nothing is done with this for 3 years now, so what can I expect with support?

What do I say to client?

(CID:132654252)

[DCIM_Support]

this is gateway link:

https://www.schneider-electric.com/en/download/document/43625-FR/

(CID:132654258)

[DCIM_Support]

Dear Boris Majdandzic,

Ok, thanks for the web-link and for clarifying your situation. I carefully studied the documentation from the web-link and I am sure, that you need a Modbus DDF-file, but not an SNMP DDF-file.

...MODBUS version is not working with Schneider gateway T1000.

I can not yet understand why the Modbus DDF-file for your Stulz C7000 cooling device from resource Device Support does not work for you with your TSX ETG 1000 gateway? I'm convinced, that you need to use the Modbus DDF-file and understand the cause of your problem.

Perhaps, if you tell the essence of your problem in detail, you can be helped here quickly. Otherwise, you should contact the local Schneider Electric support service to solve the problem with the Modbus DDF-file for your Stulz C7000.

It will be much faster, than developing a new SNMP DDF-file for your individual case. After all, you have little time...

With respect.

(CID:132654403)

[DCIM_Support]

Hi,

I have sent ddf-s for modification, but problem is like this. WIB 8000 is Stulz SNMP translator, so I don`t know why create MODBUS ddf for device that comunicates SNMP/SCP(Stulz protocol). This is something that should be created.

(CID:132654908)

[DCIM_Support]

Dear Boris Majdandzic,

I fully understand your difficult situation. And so I want to know some details of your project in order to understand it.

• How many cooling units?
• Are all cooling units of the same model/type, for example, Stulz C7000 IOC with E-bus + WIB8000?
• Do you use one common WIB8000 device or does each cooling unit have its own separate WIB8000?

This is necessary to understand how in the project planned to monitor and connect to external control systems your cooloing units.

With respect.

(CID:132655498)

[DCIM_Support]

Hello,

There are 4 C7000IOC units with external bus conected to WIB8000.

As you should know WIB is SNMP device & doesn`t use Modbus, but Stulz SDC protocol.

If there is a way, I would use Schneider gateway from link:

https://www.schneider-electric.com/en/download/document/43625-FR/

I tried to use it with given DDF file, but just get connection failure.

I still haven`t been to DCE training, I am going in september, but I need assistance with this.

(CID:132655522)

[DCIM_Support]

Dear Boris Majdandzic,

There are 4 C7000IOC units with external bus conected to WIB8000.

As you should know WIB is SNMP device & doesn`t use Modbus, but Stulz SDC protocol.

If you decide to use the DCO & DCE system for the project, you should first consult the Schneider Electric staff.

Since you decided to use one WIB8000 device (SNMP) for four cooling units, you should be aware that in DCE software all four cooling units will be represented as single common SNMP device. In the future, this can cause some difficulties of a human nature when handling emergency alerts from cooling units. In addition, for the correct mapping of the temperature/humidity sensors of this single common SNMP device, some skills and knowledge will be required to be divided into four separate cooling units in the DCO software. This is also an important point, which is often ignored.

In your situation, when there is not much time, you can try recommendations from practical article http://voktun-rafmagns.blogspot.com/2016/09/stulz.html (an interesting article in russian about the nuances of the WIB8000 device, I recommend to read):

Theoretically, you can do without WIB8000 and access the cooling units controllers directly via RS-485 (and / or use another gateway to switch to Ethernet). Judging by the descriptions that come across in the Internet (the reliability of which can be verified only by experiment) STULZ uses the Modbus RTU.

1. I.e., for DCE software use the Modbus DDF-file. In this case, the WIB8000 device is not used for monitoring (but it can remain connected for access to the web-GUI of cooling units for personnel). And any TCP/IP Modbus gateway available for you (TSX ETG 1000, EGX150 or TSXETG100) can be connected directly to the RS-485 BMS-bus of four cooling units.

2. According to the documentation STULZ operations manual for C7000 CompTrol from Schneider Electric FA167965:

The C7000 control systems manages 3 busses:
1. IIC-bus for the communication between the C7000
I/O controller and the EAIO/EDIO boards
2. RS485 IO-bus for the communication among the
A/C units
3. RS485 BMS-bus for the communication with a
building management system

That is, by default your four cooling units and the WIB8000 device are connected to the same RS485 IO-bus for the communication among the A/C units (via SDC/MIB (WIB8000) protocol).

3. Next, you need to have an EBUS-extension board for RS485 bus for each cooling unit. This extension board connects to the C7000 controller via the EBUS extension (socket) and has RS485 BMS-bus for the communication with a building management system (via Modbus RTU protocol).

4. To this second optional RS-485 BMS-bus, you need connect four cooling units and the Modbus TCP/IP gateway. Then the Modbus TCP/IP gateway through the ethernet port connects to the DCE-server with the imported Modbus DDF-file (see above).

5. In this case, in DCE software all your four cooling units will be represented as separate four Modbus devices. As a result, you should not have any difficulties in handling alarms from cooling units in DCE software and in mapping temperature/humidity sensors in DCO software.

I hope I clearly explained how I would do it.

With respect.

(CID:132655623)

[DCIM_Support]

Hello,

Thank you for the explanation, but I think you didn`t get my problem. I have already tried to connect C7000 through the gateway & it didn`t work. I can see the unit in the gateway, but DCE reports failure on the MODBUS/TCP search.  I have used gateway TSX ETG 1000/1010 & the problem would be solved if it would work.

(CID:132657037)

[DCIM_Support]

Dear Boris Majdandzic,

I just want to explain more schematically in the pictures.

Here it will be wrong:

But this will be correct:

If you have any further questions, please ask.

With respect.

(CID:132657634)

[DCIM_Support]

Hi, 

We will check connections, but this could be a problem. The AC units are interconnected, so we can control all of the units from a single display. Also we do have Modbus that we can see from C7000AT display. If we wan`t to reconnect the system according to the image, we have to dissasemble the whole system.

On TSX gateway we can see value of the sensors, but we can`t get them in DCE.   Is there another solution? Data centar is on-line for a whole year. Can you get me WIB 8000 SNMP ddf file. I have sent request, but it seems that nobody cares.

(CID:132664508)

[DCIM_Support]

Dear Boris Majdandzic,

From your comment:

On TSX gateway we can see value of the sensors, but we can`t get them in DCE.

Tell us please, where is your TSX ETG 1000 TCP/IP Modbus gateway connected via its serial line Modbus RTU? Can you draw how this connection is made on the example of my pictures?

...The AC units are interconnected, so we can control all of the units from a single display. Also we do have Modbus that we can see from C7000AT display. If we wan`t to reconnect the system according to the image, we have to dissasemble the whole system.

I do not quite understand what the problem... If you have a C7000AT display with an RS485 BMS-bus interface ("Port2" – pins 13,14 on it's PCB), you only need to connect the TSX ETG 1000 TCP/IP Modbus gateway through the serial line Modbus RTU to the C7000AT display. I.e., it will be even easier, than I have in the pictures above.

...Can you get me WIB 8000 SNMP ddf file. I have sent request, but it seems that nobody cares.

If you really want to use only SNMP protocol via WIB 8000, then you have nothing to do but wait for the SNMP DDF-file to be ready. This may take several months and in any case you need to contact your local Schneider Electric support team to clarify the creation time and final debug of the SNMP DDF-file for your cooling units configuration (this is also important).

With respect.

(CID:132664565)

[DCIM_Support]

Hi,

Now I don`t think you didn`t understand our case. So we connected device TSX gateway & we can see AC on modus on gateway, but we can`t get data on DCE. So the Modbus connection towards the gateway works. 

Can we solve this problem? This is the first installation of the DCIM in Croatia, so how do I show my next client the problems that I have with expensive software?

(CID:132664677)

[DCIM_Support]

Dear Boris Majdandzic,

Tell us, please, could you solve your problem or not?

With respect.

(CID:132662594)

[DCIM_Support]

Hi, problem isn`t solved. 

Can you instruct us how to make changes to ddf file or how to create one?

(CID:132664683)

[DCIM_Support]

Dear Boris Majdandzic,

I congratulate you: simply searching on the Device Support web-resource for your Stulz WIB 8000 device is not trivial:

Hence the conclusion: go to this web-resource, make a similar search and download the SNMP DDF-file you need (do not mix it with a similar Modbus DDF-file above). Then import this SNMP DDF-file into DCE software and try to discover your WIB 8000 device by its IP address.

Hope this will help you a lot 😀.

With respect.

(CID:132664977)

[DCIM_Support]

Thanks,

I have downloaded the file, but when I was searching that all I got was a modbus file. Now there is also an SNMP. I will try to use it.

(CID:132665007)

[DCIM_Support]

Ok, try it and tell us the result.

With respect.

(CID:132665010)

[DCIM_Support]

It seems to be working fine.

Thanks for this customer is very happy now.

(CID:132665024)

[DCIM_Support]

Very thanks for the good feedback 😀.

I was glad to help you.

(CID:132665028)

[DCIM_Support]

Hello Boris,

I have the same problem with my customer which has same devices. Did you get number values or did you get alarm values only?

I did the same and get alarm values only. 

Thanks in advance,

(CID:132665206)

[DCIM_Support]

Dear Erhan Yasar,

The above mentioned SNMP DDF-file Stulz WIB (stulz_wib.xml v.23) has a number of pre-configured Device Alarms, that should be correctly displayed and work in DCE software.

Therefore, you first need to specify which DDF-file, which version and type (SNMP or Modbus) your customer is using?

With respect.

(CID:132665214)

[DCIM_Support]

I used the same Ddf above(v23). I only get the alarm values of devices. They use SNMP for communication. They want to get numerical values. Which version should I use?

(CID:132665298)

[DCIM_Support]

Dear Erhan Yasar,

To clarify what you mean, show a few screenshots from DCE software, please.

With respect.

(CID:132665373)

[DCIM_Support]

Hi Erhan,

Can you see the sensors in DCE - right click - sensor view?

Did you enter a password in "Launch device"?

(CID:132665530)

[DCIM_Support]

Hello @spezialist,

I have uploaded the screenshot of the "view device sensors" screen.

Hi, Boris Majdandzic I don't see the numerical values of sensors. I only see the alarm values as you can see in the screenshot. I didn't enter lunch device password. I will try it as soon as possible.

(CID:132665677)

[DCIM_Support]

Dear Erhan Yasar,

I.e., in view device sensors of your WIB 8000 cooling unit, sensors with numerical values absent at all?

Show us, please, another screenshot where you could see the Alarm Device Configuration for your WIB 8000 cooling unit, for example like this:

With respect.

(CID:132665690)

[DCIM_Support]

As you can see it works fine for me, but I have entered global read/write password in the launch settings. Without this you can`t access the data.

(CID:132665756)

[DCIM_Support]

If you haven`t changed the password, then you have them in WIB manual that is on-line. Try using password "kallisto" for read only access.

(CID:132665760)

[DCIM_Support]

Dear Boris Majdandzic and Erhan Yasar,

In order for the DCE-server to have access to the SNMP device's sensors (for example, WIB 8000 sensors), there is no need to enter the login/password for it's web-GUI in Device Launch Settings (SNMP public and private strings exist for this task – this is the main thing).

On the screenshot of Boris Majdandzic, the Model: is clearly visible - it's WIB 8000, and on the Erhan Yasar screenshot the Model: is B/S/H/ Blok 6.

Erhan Yasar, are you using the WIB 8000 device exactly? Together with which models of cooling devices? What is the firmware version of your WIB 8000?

With respect.

(CID:132665775)

[DCIM_Support]

I have Stulz C7000 CSR 361 devices connected to the WIB.

Usually SNMP should work with just right community name, but when I changed the settings some extra variables showed for AC & for UPS-es. ( Don`t know why)

I think it is the latest version of firmware, but colleague of my updated it 2 weeks ago & I have to go to customer to check.

How many devices are on the WIB?

If you have more devices It can take some time to get sensors from AC units.

(CID:132665779)

[DCIM_Support]

Hello,

Devices are the same. 1 WIB8000 with version v2.00 and 4 C7000IOC connected to it.

(CID:132667386)

[DCIM_Support]

Dear Erhan Yasar,

Ok, to understand what the problem is and help you, I need a snmpwalk-file made from your WIB8000 device. How to do this is well described on page How to create a SNMP walk file for Struxureware Expert/InfraStruXure Central. Do it according to the instructions and send me the result on my e-mail (I will send it to you privately).

With respect.

(CID:132667390)

[DCIM_Support]

Hello spezialist,

I already took snmpwalk but the walk is empty.  I attached  the walk below. There is a OID list came from Stulz. I also attached that.

Thanks in advance,

StulzWIB8000_v200_oidlist (3).pdf

10.176.205.242(WIB8000).walk

(CID:132669664)

[DCIM_Support]

Dear Erhan Yasar,

Thanks for the information: what I see is strange...

Then please make a screenshot of the window from the DCE client with a complete list of SNMP DDF-files and their versions. This is also important.

With respect.

(CID:132669708)

[DCIM_Support]

Dear Boris Majdandzic,

Can I ask you to do the same thing I asked Erhan Yasar? I.e.:

Ok, to understand what the problem is and help you, I need a snmpwalk-file made from your WIB8000 device. How to do this is well described on page How to create a SNMP walk file for Struxureware Expert/InfraStruXure Central. Do it according to the instructions and send me the result on my e-mail (I will send it to you privately).

I need this to compare the results, since Erhan Yasar only gets this:

With respect.

(CID:132669720)

[DCIM_Support]

Hello, 

I'm at holidays & won't be back until August 13. But look under my request, it should be attached with it. 

(CID:132670466)

[DCIM_Support]

Ok, thanks for the feedback 😀.

(CID:132670495)

[DCIM_Support]

Hi Boris Majdandzic and spezialist,

I am at customers location now and today is my last day to solve this problem. Otherwise we are going to lose this opportunity.

So I desperately need your help today.

Complete list of the SNMP devices are attached below. 

Boris Majdandzic, If you can send your list, I can compare the differences.

Thanks in advance,

(CID:134023773)

[DCIM_Support]

Dear Erhan Yasar,

The problem is not in the DCE-server or in its DDF-files. The problem is that your WIB8000 device responds incorrectly to SNMP requests. I.e., it is necessary to solve this problem on the WIB8000 side via its web-GUI, using the C8000_WIB_STULZ_67C_0909_en.pdf (see, for example Settings for using the SNMP protocols).

I hope this helps you.

With respect.

(CID:134023897)

[DCIM_Support]

Dear Erhan, 

I just came back to the office. I was in field with various clients.

I think specialist is right with this. What is your WIB setup?

Is SNMP enabled?

(CID:134024059)

[DCIM_Support]

What password are you using for WIB? You can use "ganymed" for admin privliges, then you can work all around WIB. Here is my WIB setup, it is actually just enabled.

(CID:134024072)

[DCIM_Support]

Hi, another problem with WIB 8000 ddf between DCO & DCO.

Problem is that I can`t see the sensors in DCO. Problem seems to be in ddf file, because it isn`t communicating with wit DCO in right way.

Can you help me with this one?

(CID:134027971)

[DCIM_Support]

Dear Boris Majdandzic,

I hope I understood you correctly, and therefore I already warned you about this in topic. In addition, see Jef Faridi answer on your question :

3- If I understand correctly you want to associate one DCE device to 4 models in DCO, right? if yes, then that is not supported, in DCO we can/may associate one DCE device to one model in DCO.

If possible, please show a couple of screenshots of your problem.

Always glad to help.

(CID:134027978)

[DCIM_Support]

Hello, your warning has been noticed, but we don`t think the same thing. Problem is also in what I think & translation.

I don`t wan`t to associate WIB with 4 devices, I can`t see sensors & the values from the MIB in DCO, I want to take sensors & put them on the floor pane, so DCO can use them for the calculation. 

I am in Denmark & have talked with Jeff yesterday.

(CID:134027985)

[DCIM_Support]

Dear Boris Majdandzic,

Ok, I understand you.

Then please read a similar topic  and Jef Faridi response to it. I also agree with Jef Faridi: your cooling device is a 3rd party device. I.e., your problem is similar to the problem of a DDF-file:

If I understand correctly question is why you are not seeing all temperature sensor measurements in DCO, right? If yes, then please see the following page: DCE Sensor Mapping to DCO, it describes the currently supported sensor mapping in DCO. So these Temperature Sensors may be supported:

EXTERNAL_TEMPERATURE

SUPPLY_AIR_TEMPERATURE

RETURN_AIR_TEMPERATURE

INTEGRATED_TEMPERATURE

RACK_INLET_TEMPERATURE

UNIT_TEMPERATURE

See also my answer on a similar problem in topic IBM DPI C13 BULK & IBM Switched C19/C13 PDU :

In this case, perhaps this is a similar problem, the answer to which Moloy Das published in topic Denco CRAC not showing all sensor values in DCO:

This looks like an issue with the DCO support, to give DCO support we create a patch file which is not provided to the customer unless he specifies that he needs DCO support. This patch file when applied in DCE might fix the issue you're facing.

I.e., I hope that the DDF team here at EcoStruxure IT will help you, and will develop an XML patch file for DCO software for your 3-rd party IBM rPDU.

With respect.

(CID:134027998)