UTS10BI remote start and generator compatibility.

[ScottS_apc]

I'm interested in a two-generator backup solution using the 10-circuit UTS10BI. I already own a Honda EU2000i that I'd like to use as the backup2 source (so I can power some subset of circuits 2-8 using less fuel while backup1 is not operating). I'd like to install an automatic standby generator (Generac Guardian 8kw or similar) to automatically power up all 10 circuits when there's a power outage, but with the option to shut it off and start my Honda generator during extended outages to conserve fuel. So for short outages, I'd have the equivalent of a standard automatic transfer switch (but with load shedding so I can power more circuits with a smaller genset), but for longer outages I'd be able to run a much smaller generator to power several circuits through the same switch (which wouldn't be possible with any other transfer switch that I'm aware of).

What is not clear to me is what generators would be compatible with this setup -- particularly as regards automatic transfer/startup, as I thought I saw some threads that indicated that the auto startup kit was never actually released. Does this mean that, as of today, automatic startup of a standby generator is not supported with the UTS10BI? If that's true, are there any alternatives? The other "load shedding" options I've seen from Generac and others seem to only shed large 240V loads (i.e. air conditioners, etc), but won't support the per-circuit load shedding that the APC UTS series will support.

Any insight here would be appreciated. Thanks, Scott

[mikepa_apc · Accepted solution]

Since Honda now sells a wired remote start accessory, does anyone know if this could be connected to the UTS10BI so the generator would automatically start when the power goes out? I'm thinking you could remove the box at the end of the cable and some how wire the cable into the APC transfer switch?

Honda 06610-Z22-800AH; REMOTE CNTRL KT, 50' Made By Honda : Amazon.com : Automotive

[Anonymous user]

Todd,

I have never heard the generator do the exercise test, I asked my family and they havent heard it start either. I had the same question.  When I push the generator test button on the UTS10BI it will start and run the generator for about 15 or 20 seconds then shut it down.  It doesnt swap power to the house at that time.

When the power goes out it will start the generator in about a minute, when the power comes back on it will drop all power for about 3 seconds then come back on the line power. You must have battery back up plugged into the UTS10BI for this to happen as it powers the panel while power is out, it also powers a circut that you choose,  I have the pellet stove on that one so I don't get smoke in the house.

I have a battery tender on the generator battery so it stays charged. APC needs to change the program for the stop relay in the UTS10BI, it holds in the stop position for about 5 seconds, then it will revert to on. The generator stays stopped, but I think it stay in the stopped or off position until it tells the generator to start again. It works just fine the way it is, but it just doesnt seem right.

Nelson

[Anonymous user]

Mike,

I bought the older honda remote start kit,  it looks like a older version of what you have.  Mine has the remote start stop box, a long cable to the generator and a relay box that mounts on the generator.  I cut the cable near the start stop box and added an extension to so it could reach the UTS10 BI.  It took me a while to figure out what order to connect the wires to the euro connector I bought, I finally opened up the start stop box and traced the wires to the on/off switch and the start/stop switch. I followed the APC remote start kit instructions, (see above) and had to change the pre-programed relay setting on the UTS10BI to get it to work right.
Make sure the honda remote start kit you buy is for your model generator, my generator is around 10 years old, so I bought one of the old ones off ebay for $150.

Hope the electrician you hire is with it on this stuff, and you have downloaded all the manuals including the APC remote start kit instructions.

The system works great, but was a pain to figure some of the stuff out do to all the parts you have to find.

I had the Honda EM5000sx generator, and a remote generator hookup box on the outside of the house, with the power cable to hook them both up.  Also the cable from the outside box to the old manual generater transfer switch in the house. All I bought was the UTS10BI, the Euro connector, honda remote start kit, some 20 amp fuses for the UTS10BI to replace the 15 amp ones it comes with (get the exact brand the UTS10BI calls for). if you need bigger ones. You should get the battery tender that honda has on the generator accessory page, it's made to stay connected all the time. (don't try to jury rig anything else). An APC battery back-up such as the BR1500 or newer.

I'm sure I've left something out, ask all the questions you need.

Nelson

[mikepa_apc]

Nelson,

Thanks for all the information! Much appreciated. A few more;

1. Do you have the URL at Jameco for the connector? I searched their site for the aforementioned keywords, but the one that comes up is 4 wide, not 6. It looks like the connector inside the ATS is 6 wide.

2. I use Battery Tenders for all my battery powered equipment, and have the waterproof model ready to connect to the generator.

3. Where do you have your generator sitting? I ask because we have had ours sitting on our front porch with a cover on it. While this protects it from the weather, it won't work with an auto start implementation.

4. With the remote start feature, and I assume it applies to the auto start, Honda says to disable one of the features I like the most, i.e., the fact the generator will return to idle when there's no load. I realize with 10 circuits connected the odds of this happening are slim, still...

5. I have an APC BR1500G UPS all set to go.

Mike

[Anonymous user]

Mike,

The url for jamco 5.08 mm 6 pos connector is

http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/StoreCatalogDrillDownView?langId=-1&storeId=10001&ca...

You might order 2 incase you mess up one of them. Other places have them, its a Eurostyle 5.08mm, the photo shows 4 connector, but the heading says 6.

I have a 2 car coverit garage (a tent garage)  next to the house.  The generator sets in the back corner and I leave the garage door open most of the time.  I have my UTS10BI set to leave the generator running for 5 minutes after the power comes back on, so that it can cool down if its been under a heavy load.  If I'm home I run outside when the power come back on and put the generator in idle mode as it's cooling down, I then shut it down, turn off the idle mode and pull the pull start rope until I feel some resistance (top dead center so both intake and exhaust valves are closed) helps keep moisture out of the cylinder.  I have forgot the generator in the idle position and it started fine and picked up the electric load (small load), the problem is if you have a large load for the generator to pickup it could bog down the generator and blow something. (such as the water pump)

I ordered a box of 20 amp Ferraz-Shawmut ATM20 fuses, because my place isn't wired up right, lots of stuff on each circuit. They are very expensive, I looked local, (didn't find any), amazon and ebay.  I found some for about half the going cost $7-$10 each,  I can't find where I got them, but it was new ones in a box, someplace was clearing out their stock.

I had a 240v circuit that wasn't being used, so I used it for the 240v feed to the UTS10BI.  I am going to replace my electric hot water heater with the 30amp breaker with a smaller one with a 3500 watt element and 20 amp breakers so I can use the UTS10BI and my generator,  my honda EM5000sx can run 4500 watts all day, I used to shut everything off on my old manual generator transfer switch and then turn on the 30 amp 4500 watt electric water heater, the generater handled it fine.

I have seen plastic and metal generator shelters online, the plastic one didn't have good ratings and cost a lot.

Done rambling

Nelson

[Anonymous user]

Mikepa,

Great to hear you got it working good. My wife and I sure like ours, the day after I hooked mine up the power went out while I was home, within a minuete the generator started and the power came back on.  My wife came home from work and cooked supper, as we were eating the power came back on.  (it kind of throws you for a moment when the lights go our as the power switches back to line power).  About an hour and a half later I was in bed and the power went out again,  my wife said "the powers out" this some concern in her voice, I said OK. and then the generator started and the lights came back on.  I got a big hug and she is happy now and doesnt fear the power dropping anymore.

[mikepa_apc]

The electrician was here today and wired everything up, including the autostart. Everything works great! In addition to the inlet box, he also installed a GFCI next to it where I plug in the Battery Tender. My generator is a Honda EM5000SX.

For those that find this thread and could use a complete parts list;

1. 4-conductor remote cable - Honda Part Number 32520-Z22-850AH

2. 5.08 Euro plug, 6 connector - Jameco Part Number 1969446

3. Automatic Transfer Switch - APC Part Number UTS10BI

4. 120/240V 30A Inlet box - Honda Part Number 32316-189-PB30

5. 125/250V 30A 10 gauge, 4 wire 10 ft power cord - Honda Part Number 06582-103-010AH

The electrician replaced the connector on the end of the 4-conductor remote cable that plugs into the ATS with the Jameco connector,  wired it according to the pdf mentioned earlier in this thread and it plugged right into the circuit board in the ATS.

[Anonymous user]

I think I understand the question.

At night, for example, you want to start up the smaller EU2000 and shut down the big generator without having to swap generator cords to backup source 1.

If I understand the manual correctly, in order for the UTS to have the firmware or UTS do it's thinking for the autostart sequence, the UTS must be receiving power from the UPS input (backup source 2). If there's a non-running EU2000 on the UPS input (backup source 2), then the UTS will go dead when the city power goes out and will not be able to "play" the auto starting sequence for the generator that is on backup source 1, thus requiring the backup source 1 to be manually started, then the UTS would light back up & switch the circuits to generator i.e. backup source 1.

At least that's how I interpret the manual.

One way to accomplish what you're thinking (assuming I even understand your question right) is to power backup source 2 with a UPS Battery Backup that will auto-start your larger generator in an outage. If the outage looks like it's going to last in duration, swap out the UPS Battery Backup for the EU2000 as backup source 2 while the larger generator is still running & manually shut down the big genny after setting the UTS backup source 1 to Manual Start instead of Automatic.

That way only during a long extended outage would you have to "swap" cables between the UPS & the EU2000, set bacukup source 1 to Manual from Automatic & manually shut down the big generator. During the shorter outages where you only use & stay on the big generator, everything is automatic.

Keep in mind that the switch from City, to UPS, to Gen is not seamless and the circuits will drop momentarily when each switch-over happens, unless there is a UPS Battery Backup powering a circuit as "uninterruptible".

Hope that helps.

-Todd

Message was edited by: Boatingrtb

[mikepa_apc]

Yes, I am very happy. We lost power last week. There were storms in the area. I was sitting there watching TV, kind of waiting for the power to go out, and it did. Initially, I got the same old feeling, "Crap, I have to go start the generator." Then I caught myself, No, I don't. As you said, within a minute, I heard the generator start purring and I kept watching TV.

EDIT: I also use the test feature every month, just to make sure everything is working as designed. Too bad the APC unit doesn't auto-test, but that's a minor quibble.

[BillP]

you're welcome. don't want you to get in trouble with your wife 🙂

[Anonymous user]

I just bought the UTS10BI, RS 1500 UPS, Honda remote start kit (the relay that mounts on the generator).
My UTS10BI is a newer one with the hardwire kit installed. I only bought this transfer switch because it has the generator auto start capability. I installed everything this week and it all works great, except I can't find the APC auto start kit. After reading this forum I now find out the kit is not available. My generator is the EM5000s, the one the kit supports.
I am not telling my wife that after spending over $800 on this nice setup that I can't get the $2.00 - $5.00 part I need to make the auto start work.
Is there any way to buy the 6 plug terminal block from APC or do you have the part number or measurements of the correct plug so I can purchase it on line?
This isn't fair, I have been researching auto start transfer panels for around 2 years and this is the first I've heard that the auto start kit is not available.
I understand the kit is not available because Honda has different wiring and relay setups for different generators. I am an electronic tech and the APC Instructions for wiring up the auto start are easy to follow.
Help finding the correct plug would be great.
Thank you every one for your help and time.

[BillP]

i am told this is a "5.08MM EURO PLUG 6 POS"

[Anonymous user]

Thank you for the instant reply. I see that size online for between $1 - $5.

Nelson

[Anonymous user]

Thanks for your help.
I bought the plug from Jameco.com and it fits perfectly.
I also ordered some 20 amp Ferraz-Shawmut fuses for the circuses that use them.
I spent a great deal of time with the wiring schematics for the honda generator and the APC autostart manual. The only thing I had to do different is have the stop relay set to (NC).
I have done several tests by turning off the main house breaker and it works perfectly.
MY WIFE IS VERY HAPPY!
It's to bad Honda doesn't take more of an interest in this UTS panel and work with APC in providing some autostart wiring instructions for the various remote start generators they have made over the years. APC should also work with some of the other generator manufacturers for remote setup wiring.
Thanks for you help again.

[BillP]

glad you got it working!

[Anonymous user]

Thx, I'm ordering a plug right now for my future auto-start application.

-Todd

[BillP]

hello, as i mentioned in another post i am not an expert on the UTS product but i did ask someone who supports it regularly. here is some information i can provide.

we never released the auto start kit but we do have the manual for it (see attachment) which shows how to wire a generator to the UTS on their own. We must warn you to never wire an auto start to a generator thats indoors. you would also not be able to wire two generators to auto start so we're a bit confused on how you think this might work. We have never supported an installation on the UPS input to the UTS but as long as the output power is good from the generator, it could power the UTS. We think you'd be better off using a UPS for the transfer time from the outage to the generator taking over, otherwise you may have to go start the generators and the auto start is useless.

[Anonymous user]

Nelson,

In the Installation Guide for the UTS10BI (Updated: 22-Mar-2012), at the bottom of page 4 it says

"Generator Exercise (Test), Every two weeks".

What are your observations with your auto-start installation with the "every two week" test?

1) How do you know what day & time that's going to happen?

2) How long does the test of the generator run for? (i.e. how long will the generator run during the test?)

Thx

-Todd

[dferrero_apc]

Hi Scott, I know this is an old post but I actually recently wanted to do the same thing...for a long outage overnight where most of the house is 'quiet', use a more gas-efficient smaller 120V generator. I think the setup is simpler and here is what I would do:

Assuming 240V big generator as backup 1

Assuming a decent sized UPS for backup 2

Assuming an auxiliary 120V smaller generator like a small EU2000is/EU2200is available

Assuming you're not setup for auto-start/stop on the big generator:

Thick (10 gauge) extension cord  from EU2000/EU2200 into your UPS, shut down the 240V generator and let the EU2000/EU2200 carry the 120V loads overnight.

ALWAYS run ANY combustion generator safely outside 6'+ away from any door, window, etc.