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RS800 doesn't cover voltage drop - new PC reboots

APC UPS for Home and Office Forum

Schneider Electric support forum for our APC offers including Home Office UPS, Surge Protectors, UTS, software and services and associated products designed to share knowledge, installation, and configuration.

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dmspen_apc
Crewman
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RS800 doesn't cover voltage drop - new PC reboots

This was originally posted on APC forums on 12/21/2009


I have an RS800 wchi is rated at 500watts of power coverage. My house has awful wiring. On the circuit that powers my PC, I get power dropouts when a light switch is turned on. My old PC, a Dell Dimension 8400 wouldn't skip a beat when the power drop happened - the RS800 would beep, the dropout was covered and everyone was happy.

I got a new Dell Studio XPS 9000 last week. It is now plugged into my RS800. The problem I'm having is that when the dropout happens, the RS800 beeps (battery online) but the new PC reboots. That says to me that the RS800 is NOT covering the power requirement.

Does anyone hav any thoughts of how to test this and know any reason why it shouldn't cover my new PC? I figure the total MAX output of the new PC and monitor is 380W.


Accepted Solutions
dmspen_apc
Crewman
Crewman
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Re: RS800 doesn't cover voltage drop - new PC reboots

This was originally posted on APC forums on 12/22/2009


Thanks, that's kind of what I suspected. Looks like it's time for an upgrade.

LOL! I run the APC Wizard for finding what I need and guess what it come up with? Yep! The RS800! Maybe 'll take everything else off the unit and see what happens...

Message was edited by: dmspen

See Answer In Context

32 Replies 32
dmspen_apc
Crewman
Crewman
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Re: RS800 doesn't cover voltage drop - new PC reboots

This was originally posted on APC forums on 1/13/2010


With just the PC plugged into the RS800, and the RS800 UNPLUGGED from the wall, the PC will not boot. It tries to start but will not go into a boot cycle.

I bought an RS1300 and plugged the PC into it alone and the UPS UNPLUGGED from the wall. The PC will not boot. It tries to continually bot but goes through some power cycling every second - almost sounds like a car trying to start.

I talked to Dell and they claim I have a bad UPS. I've now had a similar issue on 2 UPS with sufficient power.

SO now what do I do? Can I not have a battery backup on my new PC?

Techie_apc
Admiral
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Re: RS800 doesn't cover voltage drop - new PC reboots

This was originally posted on APC forums on 1/14/2010


Hi David,

In addition to what Voidstar said, I would recommend you to go for a [Smart UPS|http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=165&ISOCountryCode=US] to support this System. Based on my experience, there are three things that can cause this issue when using it with Back UPS. 1. Output waveform of the Back UPS on battery which is Stepped approximation to a sine wave. 2. Power draw of the Computer when the Back UPS transfers from Online to On battery. 3. Back UPS transfer time-the Back-UPS may experience up to an 8ms transfer time while it transfers(switching from utility power to battery power and back). APC Smart UPS works fine with the Dell XPS Studio 9000. I will be happy to recommend a Smart UPS for your need in case if you need any helping choosing the correct model. How much runtime do you require in the event of power failure? Do you require a rackmount or tower mode? Are there any other features you would like the UPS to have?

stuay_apc
Crewman
Crewman
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Re: RS800 doesn't cover voltage drop - new PC reboots

This was originally posted on APC forums on 1/19/2010


I am having the exact same issue. Is there a particular model within the Smart UPS line that you would recommend?

I need it to fit under my desk, and I currently have the following things plugged into my current one: PC, 22 inch monitor, external hard drive (in the battery back up outlets) AND a printer, cordless phone recharger, and powered speakers (in the non battery backup outlets). I would like room to at least add a second external hard drive into a battery back up outlet at some point in the future.

The power supply in my PC is rated at 475W.

Price of course is an issue, so cheaper is better.

One unit I found is the Smart UPS 1000VA (Model # SUA1000) at:
http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=SUA1000
Will that work? I notice that it has 8 inputs? Are all 8 on battery backup, or is it 4 on battery, 4 not on battery like my old one? It's a little pricey for me, so is there anything cheaper that would work as well?

Please let me know.

Thanks,

Stuart Kohn

stuay_apc
Crewman
Crewman
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581

Re: RS800 doesn't cover voltage drop - new PC reboots

This was originally posted on APC forums on 1/19/2010


To add to my previous request for a recommendation. I don't need the back up to be on for more than a couple of minutes.

Thanks again!

dmspen_apc
Crewman
Crewman
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581

Re: RS800 doesn't cover voltage drop - new PC reboots

This was originally posted on APC forums on 1/19/2010


Thanks Techie,
I have nearly the same setup as stuay. The 9000 PC and 24" monitor are, of course, the biggies. I have a WD external hard drive that should be on UPS. Since units like the SUA1000 DO NOT have non-backup outlets, there would also be powered speakers (40 watt), a desk phone charger, and maybe a small desk lamp (40 watt or so). Maybe I could put those items on a plain old surge protector.

I've looked at the SUA1000 and SUA750. Is the 750 just a little short of what I need? My biggest concern is covering minor power dropouts. As I stated earlier, I have a bad circuit at home that drops freequently, so a long run time is not necessary. I would like the UPS to tell the PC to shutdown after several minutes without power.

Also, what's the difference between the SUA models and the SMT models?

Any advice is always welcome.

Message was edited by: dmspen

Techie_apc
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Re: RS800 doesn't cover voltage drop - new PC reboots

This was originally posted on APC forums on 1/19/2010


Hi Stuart,

Regarding your question, all of the SUA1000 UPS outlets are battery backup plus surge protection outlets. Please be aware that the size of the UPS depends upon the equipment you plug in and your requirement. The SUA1000 or SMT 1000 is a good choice for your requirment. You may also check out Coastal Business Machines refurbish and resell Pre-Owned Products offering if your New unit price is not within your budget range. APC Certified Pre-Owned UPSs have a one year warranty and free support for the product’s life. Please click on the below link and enter the promo code "n346w" for more information and browse for Smart UPS SU or SUA series products.
[https://www.apcc.com/promo/index.cfm?]

I hope that this helps.

stuay_apc
Crewman
Crewman
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Re: RS800 doesn't cover voltage drop - new PC reboots

This was originally posted on APC forums on 1/19/2010


Thanks for the suggestions. The refurbished looks like a great deal. What is the difference between the SUA 1000 and the SMT 1000? They appear to be the same for me.

Will the 1000 adequatley handle 475W PC, an ink jet printer, speakers, a telephone recharger, 2 external hard drives, and a 22 inch HD widescreen monitor? Should I go with the the 1500 to play it safe? I don't want to get more than I need, but on the other hand I don't want to get one and find out it's not enough.

Thanks,E

Techie_apc
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Re: RS800 doesn't cover voltage drop - new PC reboots

This was originally posted on APC forums on 1/19/2010


Hi David and Stuart,

Could you please let us know the total load power consumption so that I can recommend a UPS for your needs?

SMT series differences over SUA series.

Informative LCD interface – provides detailed information in an easily understandable format. The LCD is a great ‘window’ into the changes we made under the hood.
High efficiency “green” mode – achieves efficiencies up to 99% which saves utility costs. It also has limited bypass functionality to provide an additional level of fault tolerance.
**Controllable receptacle group* – provides the ability to remotely reboot, load shed non-critical loads during extended outages, and sequenced start-up.
*Supported in SMT units above 750VA-the switched outlet group may be operated independently from the main UPS outlets. This allows for non-critical load shedding, reboot of hung equipment, & sequenced start-up & shutdown.
Enhanced battery management – intermittent charging capability prolongs life and a patent pending algorithm projects the month and year recommended to replace the battery.
Flash upgradeable firmware – provides for easy field upgrades as new features are added
Energy Meter-The UPS keeps a running measure of the its power consumption. It begins tracking usage of energy the moment the UPS is turned on and continues the life of the UPS. It is displayed in kilo-watt hours.
*3 year warranty on UPS* – matches most servers and provides an additional assurance of reliability.

dmspen_apc
Crewman
Crewman
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581

Re: RS800 doesn't cover voltage drop - new PC reboots

This was originally posted on APC forums on 1/21/2010


Here's my power needs...
PC is 475 watts, but it's a PFC PSU which means it can try to pull about 110% if needed
Monitor is 58 watts

I think that I will get a long extension cord/surge protector for the rest of the equipment as it's non-critical. I figure I'm under the 600w range so the SMT/SUA1000 is probably the way to go.

Is that about right?

Another question...on the Coastal refurb website, it says the Smart UPS 1000 is 'comparable' to the SUA1000. Is this just a naming issue or are there really differences?

Message was edited by: dmspen

Message was edited by: dmspen

stuay_apc
Crewman
Crewman
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581

Re: RS800 doesn't cover voltage drop - new PC reboots

This was originally posted on APC forums on 1/20/2010


Right now I have the BackUPS LS 700. Attached to the Battery outlets are my PC, a monitor and an external hard drive. The PC is rated at 475W, the monitor at 47W (typical) to 58W (Maximum), and an external hard drive at 18W. Powerchute, however, says that my battery back is running 151W to 164W, with an input voltage of 124V, and an estimated runtime of 22-23 minutes. (How come it's not equal to the Wattage as specified on my equipment? ) If I get a Smart UPS SUA model, then I will also need to hook up an ink jet printer rated at 16W, powered speakers at 30W, and a telephone recharger and (I don't know what that is are rated at, but I can't imagine they are more than the external hard drive or printer). I will probably at some point also need to add another external hard drive.

What do you recommend?

Thanks,

Stu

Message was edited by: stuay

Techie_apc
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580

Re: RS800 doesn't cover voltage drop - new PC reboots

This was originally posted on APC forums on 1/20/2010


Hi Stu,

As far as I know, the equipment will not consume its maximum all the times. So this may be the reason for the PCPE to show the less power than the Maximum power draw.

Based on your data, I have calculated the total load Watts which comes close to 703. In this case, you can go for either the [SUA1500|http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=SUA1500&fnl=4606,2&fnl_basket=4606,3...] or [SMT1500|http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=SMT1500&fnl=4606,2&fnl_basket=4606,3...]. Please check the technical specification of the UPS to verify if the runtime of the unit at 703 Watts suits your need.

let me know if you have any question.

stuay_apc
Crewman
Crewman
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0
580

Re: RS800 doesn't cover voltage drop - new PC reboots

This was originally posted on APC forums on 1/21/2010


Thanks. Two more questions and then I think I'm done. Does the refurbished unit come with the the Equipment Protection policy along with the one year guarantee? Also, it seems that the SMT units have more features than the SUA's but they are priced the same -- how come, am I missing something, are their advantages to the SUA1500 over the SMT1500?

Thanks again,

Stu

voidstar_apc
Janeway
Janeway
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581

Re: RS800 doesn't cover voltage drop - new PC reboots

This was originally posted on APC forums on 1/21/2010


I have a bit of experience with the SMT1500 so I can offer some answers to that part of your question. The SMT1500 is intended to replace the older SUA1500 product. Despite that, here are two reasons you might consider the older product:

1) The SUA1500 speaks UPSLink on the RS232 serial port which is used by some 3rd party software like APCUPSd. The SMT1500 speaks the newer Microlink protocol over its serial port. If you use USB rather than serial (the UPS has both), use APC's software, or don't use UPS management software at all, then this does not affect you.

2) While the SMT1500 is an incremental improvement of the SUA1500 design, it is still very new and so some folks prefer to stick with what they know works.

Techie_apc
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Re: RS800 doesn't cover voltage drop - new PC reboots

This was originally posted on APC forums on 1/21/2010


The Refurbished products do not come with Equipment Protection Policy. Click on the below link to know more about APC Certified Pre-Owned Program.
http://www.apc.com/solutions/display.cfm?id=2FA212C7-5056-AE36-FE9D2C6D39FB0C9B

KVAr_apc
Captain
Captain
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580

Re: RS800 doesn't cover voltage drop - new PC reboots

This was originally posted on APC forums on 2/1/2010


80Plus program is getting pretty common, so you can assume the PSU efficiency on many modern computers to be around 80%. With the 80Plus certification comes the power factor requirement.

The PSU is usually sparingly loaded, so its not a good indicator of actual power. If you have a 500W power supply, but your computer is using around 200W, then expect the input power (or UPS output) to be around 250W.

It does seem like modified square wave to Active PFC compatibility issue though.

dmspen_apc
Crewman
Crewman
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0
581

Re: RS800 doesn't cover voltage drop - new PC reboots

This was originally posted on APC forums on 2/3/2010


Got my SUA1000 (refurb) today. It will charge overnight and I'll give it a shot tomorrow. I've been having power drops every day at home - a real pain. Hopefully this will straighten out the issue. I'll post again after I've given the UPS a whirl.

Another note of interest...my new Dell XPS Studio 9000 does NOT have a serial port!

I only realized this when I went to update the firmware on my video processor. WHOA! Where's the serial port!? I had to drag my old laptop from work to do the update, so my connection to my new SUA1000 will be UPS.

Message was edited by: dmspen

dmspen_apc
Crewman
Crewman
0 Likes
0
581

RS800 doesn't cover voltage drop - new PC reboots

This was originally posted on APC forums on 12/21/2009


I have an RS800 wchi is rated at 500watts of power coverage. My house has awful wiring. On the circuit that powers my PC, I get power dropouts when a light switch is turned on. My old PC, a Dell Dimension 8400 wouldn't skip a beat when the power drop happened - the RS800 would beep, the dropout was covered and everyone was happy.

I got a new Dell Studio XPS 9000 last week. It is now plugged into my RS800. The problem I'm having is that when the dropout happens, the RS800 beeps (battery online) but the new PC reboots. That says to me that the RS800 is NOT covering the power requirement.

Does anyone hav any thoughts of how to test this and know any reason why it shouldn't cover my new PC? I figure the total MAX output of the new PC and monitor is 380W.

Techie_apc
Admiral
Admiral
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581

Re: RS800 doesn't cover voltage drop - new PC reboots

This was originally posted on APC forums on 1/21/2010


Hi David,

Yes, the SUA1000 is a good choice for your need. Regarding the Model number confusion, could you please give them a call to clarify it?

dmspen_apc
Crewman
Crewman
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581

Re: RS800 doesn't cover voltage drop - new PC reboots

This was originally posted on APC forums on 1/22/2010


Coastal said they are SUA1000s, but the batteries might not be exactly the same brand as a new one.
Is there any difference between using the DB9 cable vs USB on the SUA1000 for PowerChute?

Techie_apc
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Re: RS800 doesn't cover voltage drop - new PC reboots

This was originally posted on APC forums on 1/22/2010


Hi David,

There will not be any difference between using the DB9 cable vs USB on the SUA1000 for PowerChute. The Power Chute can provide all the monitoring features via both the cables. Please note that the both the cables at the same time. You can use either the Serial or USB at a time.

Have a nice weekend!

stuay_apc
Crewman
Crewman
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581

Re: RS800 doesn't cover voltage drop - new PC reboots

This was originally posted on APC forums on 1/28/2010


I decided to go with a refurbished SUA1500. I just set it up today and it appears to be running fine and can definately handle all of my inputs. The unit uses the Powerchute Business Edition software, but is it possible to use the Powerchute Personal Edition software with it instead? That is what I used with my old unit and I prefer the Personal Editions interface.

Thanks,

Stuart Kohn

Techie_apc
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Re: RS800 doesn't cover voltage drop - new PC reboots

This was originally posted on APC forums on 1/28/2010


Hi Stuart,

APC PCPE software will not work with the Smart UPS. The PCBE software provides a lot of information about the Smart UPS. So I recommend you to use the PCBE software.
You can also use the [Windows Native support|http://nam-en.apc.com/cgi-bin/nam_en.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=2519] in case if you do not like the PCBE interface.

stuay_apc
Crewman
Crewman
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581

Re: RS800 doesn't cover voltage drop - new PC reboots

This was originally posted on APC forums on 1/28/2010


The article adresses native serial shutdown support in Windows XP. I have Windows 7, do you have instructions for setting that up as the instructions for Windows XP do not seem to apply?

Techie_apc
Admiral
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Re: RS800 doesn't cover voltage drop - new PC reboots

This was originally posted on APC forums on 1/28/2010


as far as I know, Windows 7 does not support serial native support. However, you can configure the Windows inbuilt native support via the USB cable. You need to connect the standard USB A to USB B cable between the UPS and Computer in order for the Computer to recognize the UPS via the USB cable. And then you can go to Power Options to do further settings.

For your information, APC Power Chute Business Edition version 8.0.1 supports Windows 7 OS. You can monitor the UPS through the PCBE agent web interface. The PCBE provides more monitoring features such as data logs, event logs, UPS status, Shutdown Configuration etc., May I know why you do not want to use the PCBE?

stuay_apc
Crewman
Crewman
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581

Re: RS800 doesn't cover voltage drop - new PC reboots

This was originally posted on APC forums on 1/28/2010


I'm just used to using the personal edition of powerchute. You just clicked on the icon in the system tray and you were in the interface. With the Business edition you have to set up an ID and password and log in -- just an added step; plus, I had to configure IE8 to work with PCBE by putting in 127.0.0.1 as a trusted site. The personal edition was easier and more streamlined. It also appears that PCBE has functionalities that I don't need -- such as remote program capabilities and the ability to control more than one PC.

Stu

Techie_apc
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Re: RS800 doesn't cover voltage drop - new PC reboots

This was originally posted on APC forums on 1/28/2010


Okay..I have to recommend you to use the USB native support in this case as the PCPE will not work with the Smart UPS. I have not configured the USB native support in Windows 7. However, I can give some directions to configure it. Connect a Standard USB A to USB B cable between the UPS and Windows 7 Computer. Your Computer should recognize the UPS. Make sure that the USB cable is directly attached between the UPS and Computer. You can see a UPS icon on the status bar and in Advanced Power Options. And then you can configure the Hypernation mode on battery. Please view the Screen shot for your reference. I hope that this helps.

Attachments
stuay_apc
Crewman
Crewman
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Re: RS800 doesn't cover voltage drop - new PC reboots

This was originally posted on APC forums on 1/29/2010


My UPS is connected and it's recognized by my computer in device manager, but those settings that are shown in the png file you attached are not available to me in the advanced power manager settings.

Thanks,

Stu

Techie_apc
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Re: RS800 doesn't cover voltage drop - new PC reboots

This was originally posted on APC forums on 1/29/2010


Stu,

hmm..If possible, could you post us a screen shot of the advanced power options? Did you uninstall the Power Chute? if not, please uninstall in order for the USB Power Management to enable.

stuay_apc
Crewman
Crewman
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Re: RS800 doesn't cover voltage drop - new PC reboots

This was originally posted on APC forums on 1/29/2010


Oh, Ok. maybe that's why. The PCBE Agent is still installed on my PC. I will uninstall it and try the power management settings again.

Thanks,

Stu

Techie_apc
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Re: RS800 doesn't cover voltage drop - new PC reboots

This was originally posted on APC forums on 1/29/2010


oh ok 🙂

thanks for the update. Have a nice day!

voidstar_apc
Janeway
Janeway
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580

Re: RS800 doesn't cover voltage drop - new PC reboots

This was originally posted on APC forums on 12/21/2009


Since your computer is modern, your the Dell Studio XPS 9000 likely has a PFC (power factor corrected) power supply. According to the [specification here|http://www.dell.com/us/en/home/desktops/desktop-studio-xps-9000/pd.aspx?refid=desktop-studio-xps-900...], it has a 475 watt power supply. That's how much it can supply, but it's not 100% efficient. If we generously assume 90% efficiency, then at full load it will take ~530W from the UPS.

So if the power goes out, the power supply notices and attempts to pull the full 530W from the UPS as PFC supplies are wont to do, and add in the power required by your monitor and it's game over.

These new PFC supplies tend to play nicer with the SmartUPS line of UPSes due to shorter transfer times, pure-sine wave output, and more tolerance for overload. A BackUPS needs to be properly sized and there's less margin for error.

dmspen_apc
Crewman
Crewman
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582

Re: RS800 doesn't cover voltage drop - new PC reboots

This was originally posted on APC forums on 12/22/2009


Thanks, that's kind of what I suspected. Looks like it's time for an upgrade.

LOL! I run the APC Wizard for finding what I need and guess what it come up with? Yep! The RS800! Maybe 'll take everything else off the unit and see what happens...

Message was edited by: dmspen