Looking at BR900GI series but in doubt about the quality

[progmars_apc]

I'm looking for a solid UPS that would also provide at least some warning when it's about time to think about battery replacement (unlike my current UPS which just died in a critical moment while falsely showing that battery is just fine the next time I turned it on).

From specifications, it seems that BR900 is a good choice for me - it is line interactive, has USB connection and battery replacement warning, and it should provide plenty of power for my APFC powered i7 workstation computer.

But then I started looking at the reviews and discussing with people on the forums, especially those who are related to electronics service centers. While they all told that in general APC is a good quality brand, still some of their consumer models seem to be having specific "diseases". For BR900 series, this disease seems to be relay issues after just a year of use. For example, one company had bought 25 of BR900 and they all died in a period 8 - 15 months. One of their employees bought the same model for use at home - the same failures, the same symptoms. Ok, they got replacement on warranty, but what's the point if after next year the same thing happened again? And I found also the same issue mentioned here on APC forums.

https://forums.apc.com/spaces/4/back-ups-surge-protectors/forums/general/8314/back-ups-pro-900-repea...

And it seems the answer is that these UPSes cannot handle APFC computers. Which is strange because nowadays almost all powerful computers are APFC based and my old 825VA UPS from some other company doesn't have any issues with it.

I don't want a device that has a high chance to be in need of repair or replacement, and, most probably, will not live for more than the warranty period. In comparison, my current UPS is alive and normal after 5 years of use, and if only it would have a "probably bad battery" indicator, I wouldn't think about replacement.

So, the question to the APC support (if they are still active in these forums) is as follows:

- did you at any point acknowledge the problem with BR900 UPSes and was the problem removed in the newest models? In this case, when I'm buying a BR900GI UPS, what are the signs that it's a fixed model?

- if you don't know anything about this issue (I guess, large corporations do not read forums other than their own), which UPS from your current models has different relays than BR900 and, most probably, should not suffer from the same issue? Of course, I don't want to overpay much either, but still if it would increase my chances of getting past 3 years of warranty mark without repairs, I would be ready to buy something higher end. Maybe the somewhat outdated (because of missing USB connector) SC620I is still a good choice because it's priced not much higher than BR900GI and lower than the new SMC / SMT models.

- does any of your UPSes for a price below 300 EUR report battery replacement requirement in more or less smart manner? I'm not sure, judging by this question:

https://forums.apc.com/spaces/4/back-ups-surge-protectors/forums/general/88282/apc-smart-ups-self-te...

I really want to be a happy customer of APC but I can't feel safe unless I see some proof that the company has recognized the issues and has taken responsibility and fixed the problem in their newer batches or clearly stated that BR900 series is not meant for powering modern desktop computers with APFC.

Thank you.

[voidstar_apc]

I don't know much about the build quality of individual products -- perhaps someone else here can chime in on that.

- On APFC power supply compatibility: you are correct, all modern PSUs are APFC supplies. What this means is while older non-PFC supplies were inherently UPS compatible due to their non-intelligent design, APFC supplies have intelligence and their behavior is design dependent. Most work fine, some are less forgiving of under-sizing the UPS, and a rare few such as the Dell XPS 9000 won't work at all. This affects entry level UPSes using psuedosine wave (such as APC's BackUPS) regardless of brand.

If your 825VA UPS uses a psuedosine wave and your computer handles it, then your computer is probably fine.

The alternative is pure-sine wave UPSes such as the SmartUPS or similar offerings from other companies. These cost more and sizing the UPS appropriately is still important.

Additionally, I'd recommend looking at the wattage of the UPS rather than VA. VA was important in a pre-PFC world.

- SLA batteries typically last 4-6 years so if your current UPS battery is on its fifth year, I'd look into replacing the battery.

APC UPSes self-test every 2 weeks to detect a battery that needs replacement. This works best when the UPS is at least 30% loaded as light loads might not stress the battery enough. However not all failure modes can be detected in advance just by measuring the battery voltage. Newer SmartUPS' have "smart batteries" which offer predictive pre-failure notifications. This takes time and temperature into account to predict battery failure. Assuming your batteries are at room temperature, you can get similar similar results by proactively replacing batteries on a 3 or 4 year schedule.

[progmars_apc · Accepted solution]

Thanks for the information.

My current power supply is  Seasonic M12II-620 EVO (620W with APFC) and my current UPS is a line interactive 825AV model with stepped sine wave; not very advanced and, most probably, approaching end of its life; also one of its plug contacts has gone bad and causes sparkling, so I don't use it, but the other plugs are fine.

Anyway, it seems that 825VA & 495W rated UPS is enough to power a 620W rated APFC PSU (because my PC mostly consumes only 200 - 300W and my current PSU is mostly an overkill).

Still, it's not quite clear how using an APFC PSU could gradually break an UPS during a period of a year's use. I would think that UPS either works or doesn't work with an APFC PSU immediately out of the box and there's nothing to gradually break down just because I'm using it with an APFC. But I might be wrong and maybe BR900GI is indeed breaking down for so many people just because it's not good for APFC. But then I don't understand, how such a premium product from a company that specializes in UPSes can be worse regarding APFC than a much cheaper and simpler UPS from a less known company. My old UPS has been working fine for at least 5 years already in combination with an APFC PSU without any similar issues that had been reported for the BR900GI. This makes me doubt the quality of APC lower / mid range consumer models (although more expensive than some top models of some other companies). Maybe APC Smart series are much better, but they seem to be overkill for my case - a single moderately powerful desktop PC with one ore two monitors, running in environment where brownouts and blackouts are relatively rare (maybe once a month) and short (just a second or two).