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Can Back-UPS ES be used for A/V?

APC UPS for Home and Office Forum

Schneider Electric support forum for our APC offers including Home Office UPS, Surge Protectors, UTS, software and services and associated products designed to share knowledge, installation, and configuration.

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countryboy_apc
Crewman
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Can Back-UPS ES be used for A/V?

This was originally posted on APC forums on 7/5/2009


I have a BE350R that I have my Dvd, Sat Dvr, and Tivo plugged into that I've used for several years without any problems but recently I read something about the 350R didn't provide a pure sine wave or something like that and shouldn't be used with A/V equipment, is this true? The Tivo and Sat Dvr are basically computers so I don't understand why they couldn't at least be used with a Back-UPS ES so is it safe to use that way if I want?

If I decided to buy your H15 (your AV unit with UPS is too expensive) would it be more beneficial to have the Sat Dvr and Tivo plugged into it or would it be better to keep them on the 350R?

I keep reading that surge protectors that use MOV's are not the best solution (even though many manufacturers use them) because they are continually damaged by surges and over time you have less and less protection plus the amount of joules also decreases so are devices like the H15 made to just last a certain number of years?


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BillP
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Re: Can Back-UPS ES be used for A/V?

This reply was originally posted by Angela on APC forums on 8/15/2011


S15BLK is pure sinewave output. Only the J type AV products are step approximated sinewave output as far as I know.

See Answer In Context

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BillP
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Re: Can Back-UPS ES be used for A/V?

This reply was originally posted by Angela on APC forums on 7/7/2009


hi

I have a BE350R that I have my Dvd, Sat Dvr, and Tivo plugged into that I've used for several years without any problems but recently I read something about the 350R didn't provide a pure sine wave or something like that and shouldn't be used with A/V equipment, is this true? The Tivo and Sat Dvr are basically computers so I don't understand why they couldn't at least be used with a Back-UPS ES so is it safe to use that way if I want?
a BE350R is a very entry level UPS. personally, i think it is too small for the newer computers coming out. it only provides ~200 watts and yeah, it outputs a step approximated sinewave on battery. it does not have AVR. it will go to battery if the voltage goes outside a certain threshold rather than using a transformer to boost or trim the voltage. so if you have a lot of sags or brownouts, the battery may degrade faster after more usage where a UPS with AVR might have a battery that may last longer. certain sensitive equipment cannot handle a step approximated sinewave such as high end TVs, projectors, etc. you'd have to check with the manufacturer because some equipment is fine, others reboot or turn off when exposed to a step approximated sinewave. from personal experience, i do not have any problems with a DVR on a step approximated sinewave. you just need to make sure the equipment can handle it and that the wattage provided by the UPS is enough for your equipment, which it sounds like it is if you havent had any problems.
If I decided to buy your H15 (your AV unit with UPS is too expensive) would it be more beneficial to have the Sat Dvr and Tivo plugged into it or would it be better to keep them on the 350R?
the H15 does not have any battery back up and it is not recommended to daisy chain the UPS to the H15 because you introduce more points of failure and it is not supported/tested by UL to do this. it all depends on what you need - do you need battery back up or do you just want voltage regulation for boosting/trimming the voltage.
I keep reading that surge protectors that use MOV's are not the best solution (even though many manufacturers use them) because they are continually damaged by surges and over time you have less and less protection plus the amount of joules also decreases so are devices like the H15 made to just last a certain number of years?
APC uses MOVs as well as other technologies because yes, MOVs degrade over time. APC uses the ground to shunt surges there and also uses thermal fuses and fast acting fuses in conjunction with all of that. futhermore, if none of this technology is able to absorb the surge, the device is designed to sacrifice itself and fail open to absorb the surge, rather than passing it on to your equipment. in regards to joule ratings, APC uses eP joules versus just regular Joules.

Hope all this helps.

here is some info on eP Joules versus Joules:

APC uses the eP Joule Rating because we do not simply 'absorb' the surge like some other surge products might. Our products are designed to redirect the surge back to ground instead of absorbing it and incorporate a let through voltage, which is the maximum transient voltage the attached equipment will be subjected to above the normal RMS voltage. Any remaining voltage is redirected to ground.

I believe the reason we even list the eP rating is for comparison with our competitors products. If we just listed the standard Joule rating, it would in most cases be lower than the competitors, because we aren't relying on absorbing the impact with a MOV, we're redirecting excessive voltage away from your equipment and safely back to ground.

From my understanding, we come up with the eP Joule rating by performing real world tests with both our equipment and the competitors. Based on these results, we can see how many Joules of absorbtion our units are equivalent to.

countryboy_apc
Crewman
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Re: Can Back-UPS ES be used for A/V?

This was originally posted on APC forums on 7/8/2009


Thanks for the reply and explanation about step approximated sinewave vs a pure sinewave and while buying a J15 or a S15 would be the better overall choice, because of my budget it looks like I need to focus on a H15. Just curious though I had read somewhere that the J15 used a step approximated sinewave which doesn't make sense since it's recommended for A/V or does it use a pure sinewave?

So barring a H15 sacrificing itself to a huge surge is there is no way to predict it's life expectancy, two years, three years or longer, I live in the midwest with occasional storms where the power blinks off/on which I guess you call a brownout but we hardly ever loose total power?

I'm assuming when the power blinks on/off with a H15 it doesn't miss a beat and doesn't shut down but what happens with a dvr that's plugged into it which has a hard drive, does the dvr keep going like nothing happened or would it reboot?

BillP
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Re: Can Back-UPS ES be used for A/V?

This reply was originally posted by Angela on APC forums on 7/8/2009


it is not THAT common for a unit to have to sacrifice itself. it is hard to say though depending on the area. i would expect it to last a minimum of 3-5 years if you have a lot of activity.

the current J type is a cost effective AV battery back up and yes, does output a step approximated sinewave. it is designed for maybe lower end AV equipment and is priced accordingly. it does not have all the bells and whistles like the S type units and is entry level. depending on the equipment you're using, it may or may not be suitable.

countryboy_apc
Crewman
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Re: Can Back-UPS ES be used for A/V?

This was originally posted on APC forums on 7/8/2009


Thanks for the clarification but if the J15 outputs a step approximated sinewave maybe it shouldn't be marketed for A/V products since most people would assume it outputs a pure sinewave and would be buying the J15 with that in mind and you've already indicated a step approximated sinewave isn't ideal for A/V.

You don't know how a dvr would react plugged into a H15 when the power blinks off/on?

BillP
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Re: Can Back-UPS ES be used for A/V?

This reply was originally posted by Angela on APC forums on 7/8/2009


an H15 will boost or trim the voltage so if the voltage drops or goes above a certain point that the unit can handle, it will still output voltage. if it goes outside of a certain range or drops down to nothing, the H15 will turn off because it doesnt have any battery back up.

a step approximated sinewave wont necessarily damage a piece of equipment. the equipment may reboot or just not run on the battery power. that J type unit is just a cost effective battery back up in a reasonable price range for equipment that can handle it. it also notes that it outputs a step approximated sinewave.

Darr247_apc
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Re: Can Back-UPS ES be used for A/V?

This was originally posted on APC forums on 8/14/2011


Why doesn't the [Technical Specs|http://www.apc.com/products/apcav/products/index.cfm?action=detail&base_sku=S15BLK] page for the S15BLK say what kind of wave its output is?

I think that has better aesthetics (+vis-a-vis+ my AV shelves) than the SMX750, and it probably gives a little longer run time if the power goes out during a storm, too...
my AV receiver draws the most power of all the components, 100W at average volume to 550W 'cranked'...
so I could lower the volume if the lights go out (to e.g. finish watching a movie); or if I'm not home and most-everything is turned off, the Tivo could still record for literally hours powered by the S15BLK since it draws only about 35W according to my Kill-A-Watt P4480.

BillP
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Re: Can Back-UPS ES be used for A/V?

This reply was originally posted by Angela on APC forums on 8/15/2011


S15BLK is pure sinewave output. Only the J type AV products are step approximated sinewave output as far as I know.