BE650G1 Does Not like My Portable Generator

[Anonymous user]

I have Two(2) BE650G1 (Back-UPS 650) for my Home PCs.  This morning I had a power outage & used my Portable Generator (Gentron GG10020 10,000 watt) for the fist time.

After switching to Gen power the PC's came online as normal & functioned fine for about 20 min & then the UPS started beeping  ( as though it was switching between battery & line power constantly) & after 10/15 min it would power off. I purchased the UPS's about 6 months ago thinking they would be capable of managing the quality of power produced  for my Portable Gen.  Did I purchase the wrong UPS model  or is there any suggestions as to my problem.

Thanks for  any comments.

[Anonymous user]

I get the same at times from two of my Back-UPS ES 550's and a Back-UPS 1050. APC can probably give you more info, but I believe there are generally two main factors involved here. One is the fact that many back up generators are not true sine wave, but produce a stepped wave. Nothing you can do there, but get a generator system that produces a true sine wave. The other, which can be addressed to some degree is the voltage output of your generator. I think these units have settings that can be set with the APC software to monitor high or low voltage situations. Generators will vary output quite a lot as loads change (refrigerator/freezer kicks in, or you use a microwave oven). The output of your generator can be checked with a voltage meter and if it also has a setting for cycles per second (as in 60Hz) you can see where your generator falls in in that respect. The RPM of the generator determines output and once that is set, you should be very close to 60Hz (in the US) and the voltage will fall in line where it is designed to be. It can be somewhere within 115-120VAC. The software gives you a range to set for the alarm to sound for high or low voltage and if you set it a bit lower/higher, it can give the system a bit of 'breathing room' before setting off the alarm. Maybe this will help. I have and older Generac 5500 that I converted to run on propane and it runs so well I've been hesitant to replace it but I'm looking at one at Costco that is gas/propane with around 7500W output that is also true sine wave. We have had so many outages out here recently that I will be really looking hard for the next sale time on that one.

[Anonymous user]

Brian... thanks very much for your comments. Your comments are very helpful as I  attempt to better understand the issues I experienced. I now recognize that much of my problem could be resolved with a better generator that, as you say, produces a true sine wave but, at this point that would be a larger expense than I want to pursue.  As to using the software to manage the voltage/alarm level, that is sound approach that I should and can do. I'm also trying to determine if I need to purchase a better UPS that is based on Double Conversion Topology which appears to be in the $400-$500 range.  Is this a reasonable solution - I'm still trying to research this approach.

Thanks again for your time & effort to respond to my questions. 

[voidstar_apc]

Many generators do not produce good enough quality power for a line-interactive UPS like the BackUPS, however it's encouraging that your BackUPS seems to run for 20 minutes on generator power before it started beeping (detected a problem). That suggests the generator output is good enough for 20 minutes. You might double check the LED  lights to make sure it didn't transfer to battery during those 20 minutes (I doubt it), and if it doesn't, you could try setting the UPS to low sensitivity (if your UPS supports this) as well as checking the generator voltage to see if it's something is causing it to deviate from nominal.

[Anonymous user]

Thanks Voidstar for the comments. I agree with you that my Gentron GG10020 (10,000 watt) is likely not producing good enough quality and, I'm beginning to suspect that my problems might(?) be more related to fluctuations in the generator output, especially since this was my first time to use the generator during an actual power outage (ice storm).

As I powered on different breakers on my in-house sub-panel I did not monitor the load I was was placing on the Generator.  Neither the Generator or Transfer Panel has a power meter for easy monitoring & I used a more anecdotal process (SWAG). I have a Clamp meter, Kill A Watt meter & multimeter but I did not take the time to do my due diligence

So, at this time it appears more likely the problem is a high level of ignorance on my part

Your comments as well as Brian's have helped me understand how ignorant I am/was & the need to study/learn well enough to perform my due diligence prior to the next power outage.

I very much thank you for your time & efforts to respond to my request for help & as I have a lot more to learn I hope you, et al will continue to provide any further comments.

Robert

[Anonymous user]

Sounds like you have a good generator, at least it should be enough power for essential items like freezer/fridge lighting and some use of microwave. My gen bogs down a bit as microwaves in general not only take a lot of wattage, but they don't like stepped sine wave much. OK for short term use probably but not as efficient as normal. I use a combination of small butane stove and more recently a couple of portable inversion cooktops that are variable so I can use them at a mid or lower level and they are very efficient. I don't use the Powerchute software consistently but I connect it when I need to check something. I would look at the settings and see what you can change to allow the UPS to operate within a wider voltage range and lower sensitivity. I like to keep the UPS units attached but at times have had to disconnect or change the load to the surge side rather than the battery backup but that is more rewiring that I wanted to avoid. Changing stuff and using extension cords was what I chose to avoid by installing the transfer switch to power certain circuits. There's only so much you can do when on generator power, it is a bit of a compromise, but so much better than sitting in the dark. If you are careful you can simply eliminate the UPS and use regular power/surge strips but I am still trying to fine tune myself to see if the UPS's can deal with it.

[Anonymous user]

Thanks for the comment Brian.  I think I understand but, my understanding is that the Surge Strip manages the voltage variations but not the frequency variation & therefore, prolonged exposure to the frequency variations can damage your sensitive equipment such as computers. Do you know if this is accurate?

Robert

[voidstar_apc]

The only thing that should be able to damage a computer power supply is over-voltage, such as an electric surge. Both the BackUPS and a surge strip have components to prevent that.

The reason the UPS is more sensitive to dirty power is because it takes time to switch to battery power and the UPS needs to react to true power outages before the computer notices. Most of our UPSes allow you to adjust the sensitivity... you can accept dirtier power at the cost of taking longer to react to a true outage which shouldn't be a problem for power supplies that are within spec.

I think your generator is producing good enough quality under some conditions or the UPS would have never used it as a power source for 20 minutes. Unfortunately I'm not sure what changed... maybe a refrigerator compressor kicked in, or maybe the generator heats up and operates a little differently.

[Anonymous user · Accepted solution]

Thanks for the insight Voidstar. I do think you might be correct about my problem being a result of my frige's (a full size & small size) compressors engaging. I'm also wondering about the location of my Generator - The Generator is in a backyard storage shed & i keep the gen positioned near the front doors cracked open 6"-8"  with exhaust pointed toward partially open doors.  I did notice the the motor sound of my gen seemed to be variable (not steady sound) after 5-10 min of operation which I thought was probably because the ventilation was inadequate & I opened the front door more & the gen seemed to level out. However, the problems with my UPS/computer did not occur until  1o-15 min. after adjusting the ventilation.

Also, I'm considering having a power usage meter installed on my Double Throw Enclosed Transfer Switch so that the next time I can more accurately monitor load on my Gen.

I very much appreciate your comments Voidstar - they help me a great deal.

Robert