The output power is turned off. An inverter fault exists. Refused a self-test; UPS is overloaded.

[BillP]

Hello, I'm having alot of trouble with a SmartUPS 6000.  I bought it about a year and a half ago, and I've had nothing but trouble with it.  Every time we have a brownout (which is often, unfortunately), the input power drops to about half of the normal amount.  This is what happens:

08/17/2014 11:09:30 UPS: On battery power in response to an input power problem. 0x0109

08/17/2014 11:09:34 UPS: No longer on battery power. 0x010A

08/17/2014 11:09:44 UPS: The output power is turned off.     0x0114

08/17/2014 11:09:44 UPS: An inverter fault exists.      0x0165

08/17/2014 11:09:45 UPS: Refused a self-test; UPS is overloaded.       0x0106

The unit has about 11% load on it.  It should be able to kick over to battery and run for several hours with that small load.  I have 4 batteries (3 extra battery packs plus the main unit).  Instead, I get this mess every time.  All the stuff plugged into the UPS shuts off.  I may as well not even have a UPS at all.

Data:

08/17/2014 12:04:26 211.6     213.1 0.0 0.00 0.0 0.00        69.0 204.1     72.3 0.0 68 

08/17/2014 11:54:26 210.2     211.6 0.0 0.00 0.0 0.00 69.0        204.1 72.3 0.0 71 

08/17/2014 11:44:26 210.2     213.1 0.0 0.00 0.0 0.00 70.0        204.1 72.3 0.0 68 

08/17/2014 11:34:26 211.6     213.1 0.0 0.00 0.0 0.00 78.0        204.1 73.2 0.0 71 

08/17/2014 11:24:26 211.6     213.1 0.0 0.00 0.0 0.00 84.0        203.0 72.3 0.0 68 

08/17/2014 11:14:26 103.6     216.0 0.0 0.00 0.0 0.00 92.0        204.1 74.3        0.0 69 

08/17/2014 11:04:26 210.2     211.6 208.2     2.80 10.0        60.01 100.0     218.1 74.3 9.0 69 

08/17/2014 10:54:26 211.6     211.6 208.2     2.64 10.0        59.97 100.0     218.1 74.3 9.0          71 

08/17/2014 10:44:26 211.6     213.1 208.2     2.64 10.0        59.97 100.0     218.1     74.3 9.0 69 

08/17/2014 10:34:26 211.6     213.1 208.2     2.80 10.0        59.98 100.0     218.1 74.3 9.0 68 

08/17/2014 10:24:26 211.6     213.1 208.2     2.64 10.0        59.96 100.0     218.1 74.3 9.0 71 

08/17/2014 10:14:08 211.6     213.1 209.4     2.64 10.0        59.96 100.0     218.1 74.3 9.0 71                                                             

This is completely unacceptable to me.  I've already had the main SmartUPS 6000 unit replaced by APC once, and this is still occurring during brownouts. During complete loss of power, it acts appropriately and goes to battery.  It just has no idea what to do with itself when the power input isn't completely off, but isn't what it should be.

What can I do here?  I had an old UPS from 1995 that could handle a brownout but this unit, almost 20 years later, can't handle it?  I'm just shocked.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Chris

PS. I have a ticket open with APC but the results have been underwhelming - I still have no answers after almost a year of problems.

[BillP]

Hello, I'm having alot of trouble with a SmartUPS 6000.  I bought it about a year and a half ago, and I've had nothing but trouble with it.  Every time we have a brownout (which is often, unfortunately), the input power drops to about half of the normal amount.  This is what happens:

08/17/2014 11:09:30 UPS: On battery power in response to an input power problem. 0x0109

08/17/2014 11:09:34 UPS: No longer on battery power. 0x010A

08/17/2014 11:09:44 UPS: The output power is turned off.     0x0114

08/17/2014 11:09:44 UPS: An inverter fault exists.      0x0165

08/17/2014 11:09:45 UPS: Refused a self-test; UPS is overloaded.       0x0106

The unit has about 11% load on it.  It should be able to kick over to battery and run for several hours with that small load.  I have 4 batteries (3 extra battery packs plus the main unit).  Instead, I get this mess every time.  All the stuff plugged into the UPS shuts off.  I may as well not even have a UPS at all.

Data:

08/17/2014 12:04:26 211.6     213.1 0.0 0.00 0.0 0.00        69.0 204.1     72.3 0.0 68 

08/17/2014 11:54:26 210.2     211.6 0.0 0.00 0.0 0.00 69.0        204.1 72.3 0.0 71 

08/17/2014 11:44:26 210.2     213.1 0.0 0.00 0.0 0.00 70.0        204.1 72.3 0.0 68 

08/17/2014 11:34:26 211.6     213.1 0.0 0.00 0.0 0.00 78.0        204.1 73.2 0.0 71 

08/17/2014 11:24:26 211.6     213.1 0.0 0.00 0.0 0.00 84.0        203.0 72.3 0.0 68 

08/17/2014 11:14:26 103.6     216.0 0.0 0.00 0.0 0.00 92.0        204.1 74.3        0.0 69 

08/17/2014 11:04:26 210.2     211.6 208.2     2.80 10.0        60.01 100.0     218.1 74.3 9.0 69 

08/17/2014 10:54:26 211.6     211.6 208.2     2.64 10.0        59.97 100.0     218.1 74.3 9.0          71 

08/17/2014 10:44:26 211.6     213.1 208.2     2.64 10.0        59.97 100.0     218.1     74.3 9.0 69 

08/17/2014 10:34:26 211.6     213.1 208.2     2.80 10.0        59.98 100.0     218.1 74.3 9.0 68 

08/17/2014 10:24:26 211.6     213.1 208.2     2.64 10.0        59.96 100.0     218.1 74.3 9.0 71 

08/17/2014 10:14:08 211.6     213.1 209.4     2.64 10.0        59.96 100.0     218.1 74.3 9.0 71                                                             

This is completely unacceptable to me.  I've already had the main SmartUPS 6000 unit replaced by APC once, and this is still occurring during brownouts. During complete loss of power, it acts appropriately and goes to battery.  It just has no idea what to do with itself when the power input isn't completely off, but isn't what it should be.

What can I do here?  I had an old UPS from 1995 that could handle a brownout but this unit, almost 20 years later, can't handle it?  I'm just shocked.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Chris

PS. I have a ticket open with APC but the results have been underwhelming - I still have no answers after almost a year of problems.

[BillP]

Hello Chris,

I reviewed the few cases I found under your email address and also consulted with our Smart UPS escalation lead to try and see if I can figure out what is going on. Here is my feedback.

Reading through the cases, it appears that you're using this non-split phase UPS in what you want to be a split phase environment. The cases appear to indicate that you have the UPS wired out to a 208/120V panel. This UPS is only designed to make sure it is outputting 208V (or 240v) and the legs are not necessarily balanced. So, sometimes, we see it outputting 120V and 88V to see it provide the 208V which can cause problems for the equipment at the panel. We have a specific split-phase UPS (something like SURTD6000RMXLP3U), I see at some point they suggested to you a step down transformer to provide 120V but the electrician information might have made you think it would not be required for 120V on this particular model.Or, is there a step down transformer some place?

Also, the "Inverter fault" code can also indicate a generic hardware fault, so depending on how its wired it could very well be the configuration that is causing the issue. It did appear this UPS was already replaced once under RMA?

To investigate further. I would want to verify the load in question is still 120v equipment, and if so - what stepdown transformer are you using (to provide 120V), if you did get one, or if you're still wiring two unbalanced 120V legs to a panel.

It's also a little curious that in the case I read that your electrician stated that it's 240 in to 120v out an in reality its 208v in/208v out (or 240 in/out) for this UPS. 

So in summary, here is some questions we'd like to verify to help determine the issue here for you.

• Is the load 120v or 208v?
  • If 120V- What Transformer are they using and how is it set up? Or is it direct out of the UPS (unbalanced)?
• What is the exact load (meaning the type of equipment)?
• Can you provide a clear understanding of the wiring path on the output, maybe a diagram? The information in the cases was a little confusing and we just want to verify.

Let me know if you need any clarification.

[BillP]

Hello Angela!  Thanks so much for such a quick and great reply.

Here's what our setup is like (as told to me by our electricians).  We have a 208v input coming in to the Smart UPS RT 6000 XL.  It is connected to the UPS using the hardwire kit from APC.  The 208v comes out of the UPS and goes to a breaker panel which is splitting the output power into two legs that are both powering breakers. Those breakers have a few 120v outlets on them, powering 110v equipment only.  We had this exact same setup with an old PowerWare Prestige 9000 unit from pre-1995 and it never once had any trouble with this setup, which is what boggles my mind even further.  Only reason I replaced it was because I couldn't find batteries anymore.  There is no step-down transformer as our electricians say the breaker panel performs that for us.

You saw that the legs were unbalanced?  Could that cause the inverter fault?

To answer the questions more succinctly;

1. The load is a breaker panel which takes 208v input and is providing 120v outlets.  (I believe those are the correct numbers - I'm plugging in routers and DVRs and a Windows server to this unit).

2. It is directly out of the UPS to two breakers which have 120v outlets on each.

3. The exact load is two Cisco 4500 series media routers, two American Dynamics DVRs, and one server.  The total load is 10-11%.  I have 3 external batteries for a total of 4.  They are all less than 2 years old, and the main unit is around 6 months old since I got that new one RMA'ed to me.

Hopefully this lets you explain to me what I'm doing wrong or what is going on.  Much appreciated!!!

Chris

[BillP]

Hi Chris,

Yes, I do think that the electrician is assuming that the 208V output from the UPS is balanced and providing two legs of 120V for the panel when in reality, it is not and only cares about having 208V (or 240V if you set it to do that) between the two legs. Maybe he or she had that assumption because most UPSs (or general electrical installations) he or she is familiar with do that or just that there is no reason why they would not be. I also tried to research the PowerWare stuff and it is likely that UPS was split-phase (as some of our other models are) so you did not see a problem with this set up.

Here is some further information that would apply to your UPS as well (we just updated it because it listed specific models 7500VA and above but really applies to any 208/240V Smart UPS RT) -> Hardwiring to 120v, 208v, and 240v loads from a 208v SmartUPS RT UPS | FAQs | US

You can help verify this by perhaps measuring between H and G on some of the receptacles powered by the UPS from the panel - maybe some unused ones if you cannot take a few pieces of load down. I expect you'll see a leg that is either 120V or a little higher and then something around 80-90V.

I think what you basically also said is you have no 208V load to compare what happens with that versus your 120V load at the 120V breakers installed?

Also, better safe than sorry but, the cases were logged against SURT6000XLT and SURT6000XLTQ (so no P in the part number which indicates split phase) - this is what you see on the rear of your UPS, correct? I just want to make absolutely sure that you really do not have a split phase UPS or did not have one to begin with and was RMA'd the incorrect unit. We can also go by a photo if that is easier for you. If it is split phase, the UPS is designed to do what you want without the extra step down transformer. The output being split phase guarantees balanced legs of 120V on the output and that is why we make those UPSs. They also have L14-30 inputs (which are H, H, N, G) but you're using the hardware kit anyway and not the plug. But it is a four wire input on those versus three wire. It seems like right now, there must be a neutral generated at your panel or something. My educated guess would be that maybe he bonded N and G in the output panel and it is causing some sort of loop or backfeed, both of which can cause an Inverter Fault. It is also possible (though unlikely) that the weird wiring damaged the UPS and it needs to be replaced again. Either way, we wont know for sure until everything is confirmed as wired correctly and we have a step down transformer for 120V (assuming the UPS is not a split phase for certain).

Do you happen to notice when the UPS fails, what LEDs you see on the front panel when you go to turn it back on (if you're the one who usually does)? The NMC reports those general events you provided initially but the LED combination on the front panel comes directly from the UPS so it may give a more specific error code that could help.

Hope this helps. Let me know what you think or if you have further questions.

[BillP · Accepted solution]

Hi Chris,

I had some more information I found out that I wanted to share with you.

Per what you described, the UPS is online and provides 120V power to your panel and attached load just fine. You only see the issue when the UPS experiences a power event, switches to battery power, and then it does not work properly and goes into Inverter Fault (per the NMC) or some type of fault mode. I verified that this is because while the UPS is online, it is indeed syncing to the input and providing balanced legs on the output (to your panel) assuming the legs are balanced on the input of your UPS. When the UPS goes to battery mode, it has nothing to sync to and because it only cares about the 208V (which is what your UPS is set to per the data log) and thus, the legs become unbalanced to your panel. Because of this, and likely because of the wiring at the panel to provide a neutral (N to B bond by electrician), there could be some voltage being backfed to the UPS that it does not like, and thus it faults shortly after going to battery operation.

Our recommendations are as follows in the order of most preferred to least preferred based on cost, level of difficulty, and likely feasibility.

1.) Use SURTD6000RMXLP3U split phase UPS which can be used as a tower like your current units (but we just don't sell it that way). You could use the existing tower feet from your unit now to stand them up. This would require a different input and output hardwiring kit since the one you have now is designed for three wire (Hot, Hot, Ground) where as the split phase units require four wires input/output (Hot, Hot, Neutral, Ground). The hardwire input/output kit for this UPS is part # SURT018 if you cannot use the L14-30P input plug and also to provide a hardwire output of the UPS to feed your panel. The existing battery packs you have now (SURT192XLBP) are also compatible with the split phase RT so no worries there.

• Another more complicated option (as far as re-arranging things) here is connecting a Rack PDU power strip to one of the 120V receptacles on this split-phase UPS in lieu of using the panel and plugging the equipment into that.

2.) Use your existing UPS and look at AP9628 step down transformer which is hardware input/output. The problem is though, this will only provide one leg of 120V out and would only feed half of your panel which I am not sure would be accepted by local electrical code even though it could work. It also depends on the outlet configuration.

3.) Use your existing UPS and look at the APTF10KT01 step down transformer. It will be over-kill for your UPS capacity wise and configuration but you can feed it 208V from your UPS hardwire output and it has a hardwire output connection out itself that can feed your panel. Your UPS only supports 6,000VA and it supports 10,000VA.

Let me know if you have any questions/comments.

[BillP]

Hi again Angela,

Just an update - we had another couple of small outages this morning, 4 and 2 seconds each - but this time they were not brownouts, just regular outages:

08/20/2014	05:50:58	UPS: No longer on battery power.
08/20/2014	05:50:54	UPS: On battery power in response to an input power problem.
08/20/2014	05:49:29	UPS: No longer on battery power.
08/20/2014	05:49:27	UPS: On battery power in response to an input power problem.

Data:

08/20/2014	06:04:41	207.3	214.5	208.2	2.64	10.0	59.97	100.0	218.1	74.3	9.0	68
08/20/2014	05:54:41	205.9	214.5	208.2	2.80	10.0	60.00	96.0	218.1	74.3	9.0	71
08/20/2014	05:44:41	205.9	207.3	208.2	2.64	10.0	60.00	100.0	218.1	74.3	9.0	69

Our electrician is saying that after we do a few tests this weekend and simulate a brownout, that we may be able to put a special connector or contact (can't remember the name of it) on the circuit so that if one leg of the 208v drops out, it will shut both legs off to simulate a blackout instead of allowing the circuit to 'brown' out.  Does that sound like something that would remedy our issue?

Also what does the fact that blackouts don't cause it problems versus brownouts causing it problems speak to you?

Appreciate all your time yet again.

Thanks

Chris

[BillP]

Hi Chris!

As long as power is not entirely cut (on either input leg), you likely wouldn't see an issue. Also, this UPS is an online UPS so it does not use automatic voltage regulation so brownouts are sort of irrelevant since with this UPS, it is online or it's not. And these online units can accept a wide range of input power and still output the correct voltage.

But more importantly, our official recommendation at this point is to not feed any 120V equipment from this UPS without a stepdown transformer in place in between the UPS output and your panel. You run the risk of damaging 50% of the attached equipment that could potentially be fed 80V (on the other end of the spectrum, even the full 208V) instead of 120V when the UPS goes to battery. Perhaps it is fine when the UPS is online as we discussed but it is really a loophole on when you're getting split phase power through the UPS sometimes. And just to clarify, when the UPS is on battery, it will "float," meaning the output could be 120V and 88V, could be 208V and 0V, etc. It could be any combination of two voltages that are 180 degrees apart and add up to 208V.

It also sounds like maybe there is an issue with the input to the UPS if you are periodically seeing problems with one leg dropping on the input to the UPS?

So in summary, this type/model of UPS online with 175V in and online with 240v in would be exactly the same as far as the UPS is concerned. If it loses either leg on the input totally, it will kick to battery. And in any situation, having any 120V connected to this UPS without a stepdown transformer in between the load and UPS is putting it in serious danger of being damaged and we cannot recommend anything beyond using the split phase UPS I highlighted before or a stepdown transformer for your 120V load. Any workaround to this that the electrician wants to try would be at his own risk and we are just not comfortable recommending it with no guarantee it will prevent all of the issues you're seeing with the set up and that it'd avoid all damage to your 120V load.

Let me know if you have further questions.

[BillP]

Just wanted to throw an update in here.  Turns out that in the end after trying many things, we put in a contactor with a time delay switch to stop the brownouts from throwing our circuits into a tizzy, but the main thing we are doing is putting in a APTF10KT01 step down transformer along with our single-phase SURT6000XLT, per Angela's recommendation.  Thanks again, Angela.