Connecting XR Frame to Symmetra LX

[Anonymous user]

Hi

Could someone please help me with the following,

An electrician has just installed a symmetra LX unit connected to a XR frame at a customers site.

LX has 3 batteries installed , XR frame has 6 batteries installed.

The only connection between the 2 units is the power connection done by electrician, No communication cable is this required for basis operation ?

The LX will not go online , It detects the 3 batteries , but errors with no power modules found. and cant see the XR frame with the 6 batteries

There is also nothing showing on the small screen on the front of the XR Frame.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Regards

Dave

[Anonymous user]

Hi

Could someone please help me with the following,

An electrician has just installed a symmetra LX unit connected to a XR frame at a customers site.

LX has 3 batteries installed , XR frame has 6 batteries installed.

The only connection between the 2 units is the power connection done by electrician, No communication cable is this required for basis operation ?

The LX will not go online , It detects the 3 batteries , but errors with no power modules found. and cant see the XR frame with the 6 batteries

There is also nothing showing on the small screen on the front of the XR Frame.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Regards

Dave

[Anonymous user]

Sorry not sure where i got the LX from, Will be going back onsite in a couple of days and get more detail, please let me know what detail if any is required

Regards

Dave

[BillP]

When you buy an XR frame, it should come with the communication cable that looks like an RJ-11 phone cable that goes between the communication card on the back of the LX and into the port on the XR frame which is part of the XR frame communications card. So you'd have that. so they can "talk" and then the DC power cable so the XR frame can charge.

If you don't have one, technical support can maybe provide you with one. The part number is 0W6002B.

Sounds like that is part of your problem and then issues with the power modules. Do you know the specific issues? Also, the Symmetra LX comes typically pre-installed with a UPS Network Management Card that you could configure and log into in order to get more information. We'd want to verify the status of the power modules or check to actually verify they are engaged properly in the system.

The PowerView menu on the front display could also be used once you get to the site to see what's going on with the power modules. I find the network management card easier to view and work with though to check everything we need to check. It'd be a model AP9619/AP9631 installed usually in the rear of the UPS.

If interested, instructions on configuring the management card that should be installed is here -> How do you make a Network Management Card communicate on a network? | FAQs | Schneider Electric US

[Anonymous user]

Thanks Angela I will have to have a look and see if the cable is available onsite somewhere, Do you know how long these are and if you can extend them to approx 15 metres ?

Thanks for your help

[BillP]

Hi Dave,

The max communication cable length ever tested was 15 feet (which aligns with these options for lengthening the power connection between LX and the XR - http://www.apc.com/support/index?page=content&country=US〈=en&id=FA157513).

How was the power connection wired (since it normally just plugs in with a 3-4 DC cable attached to the XR frame? I assume you also made that connection somehow 15 meters..?

The standard cable I am talking about is only 5 feet long..

The only option is to potentially try it on your own and make a cable using a pinout that could be provided by tech support or if the electrician did this and calculated out what was required to extend the power connections this far without a significant voltage drop, you could use this as a "dumb" battery cabinet. Normally, with dumb cabinets (some customers use third party cabinets for example), then there is a setting to add amp hours so the UPS can try to adjust the runtime for you. You can add those amp hours via the front powerview LCD display or through that UPS network management card.

Without battery monitoring though, this would require extra vigilance on the user's part to monitor for bad batteries, hot batteries, or other issues the UPS monitoring would normally catch.

[BillP]

No problem. We're here to answer questions

Well, the XR frames are plug and play normally. Not sure how the electrician wired it though so assuming it still has an andersen connector connecting it to the UPS, yes, you can disconnect it. If you disconnect it,make sure to turn off (assuming they are SYBT5 and have a black knob on the front) or remove/dis-engage the batteries in the XR frame though so they do not discharge and are damaged. Reconnect them when you reconnect the XR frame.

You shouldn't need to disconnect the XR frame though to troubleshoot issues with power modules but if you do, just follow what I mentioned.

[Anonymous user]

Hi Angela, I am going onsite this morning to have another look, Just another couple of questions sorry.

The LX has 3 batteries in it, The XR frame has 6 of the 9 bays full is this the best way or should they all be in the XR frame ?

Without the communication cable, How will i know if the LX has detected the XR frame and the batteries?

Thanks for your help

[BillP]

Hello again.

As long as the XR frame is connected (power-wise) to the UPS, then it does not matter where your batteries are located as long as they are kept at a float charge.

And without the communication cable, you won't really know if the LX detected the battery cabinet - hence the reference to "dumb" battery cabinet. You'll only know when the UPS goes to battery and the cabinet is connected to the DC bus of the UPS and you are provided with the extra runtime from the XR frame. There will be no other way of verifying before you actually try to use the batteries. Assuming they are connected to the DC bus, then that's all you'll be able to do if you cannot get a communication cable connected.

[Anonymous user]

Thanks Angela, The little screen on the front of the XR frame should that work without the communication cable?  Also with only XR frame connected is the setting on the back important currently it is set to 4 ?

Thanks Dave

[BillP]

If the cable is unplugged, the Symmetra XR Communication card on the XR frame will power down after a few questions and the green status LED on it and the front XR display will power off. Again, the batteries would continue to work with the DC power cable connected to the UPS though.

Can you give me the frame model number on the back of your UPS? The frame would technically be set to 2 or 3 I'd think - #2 if you have a typical 16 LX or #3 if you have what we call a "PXR" frame that has a built in 9 battery frame on the back of your LX (since the built in frame is #2). But as you eluded to, this is not super important if the communication cable wouldn't be connected. You could set it properly now just incase you get the communication cable eventually.

[Anonymous user]

HI Just arrived at site

Frame number is SYAF16KRMl  It is showing an error no power modules found so is stuck offline , It shows 3 batteries with are in the LX frame as being detected and no bad batteries, So how do i get it to detect power modules and go online ?

Thanks

Dave

[Anonymous user]

Hi, the XR Frame is SYAFSU16  When you press the diagnostic start on the back of the XR the grren light comes on and stays on for approx 30 seconds and the front panel on the XR displays 6.8. in red for a couple of seconds then dissappears

[BillP]

Hi Dave,

I think you have multiple problems here. We should get the UPS online first and see if we can figure out the power module problems.

Can you specify the error on the front of the LCD - is it no working power modules? If so, I suggest starting with the following steps.

1. Verify that all power modules are fully installed and properly latched into the system. The thumb screw must be fully tightened for the power module to turn on.

2. Verify if the power module fans are spinning. If they are not, it is possible that the power modules are not receiving proper input power or the battery bus voltage is too low. You should be able to check under status to verify the actual battery voltage. Please note, you'll see nominal and actual - we need the actual reading.

3. If you don't get anywhere with that, we might need to go further with troubleshooting other more, complicated problems that might be best handled by your local support who can walk you through it.

[Anonymous user]

HI Angela, Yahoo it is online, Reseated the power module and she all kicked into life have done a self test and there are now no errors.

it is charging now as well

Just not sure about the XR frame but as you said it is just a dumb terminal without the comm cable, I think that we will make a cable and see if we can get comms, Where can I get the pinout info from

Thanks Dave

[BillP]

Hi Dave,

Good news!

Here is the pinout on the communication cable. Also, do you have the stock cable? You need the ferrite beads off of it or get some ferrite beads from some place. Again, we don't know if this will work or not but we are leaning towards no. Worth a try!

This cable is a 4 wire, two line cable that has a RJ9 connector on each end with "Pin to Pin"" or straight through communication. This is NOT a cross-over or roll-over cable, nor is it the same as a telephone handset-receiver cable. The communication cable between the Symmetra and the XR Frame is indeed different from the communication cable use between the Matrix-UPS and the SmartCell/SmartCell XR batteries.

I don't make cables - does that make sense? That's all I have in a "what is the pinout" document.

[Anonymous user]

Hi Angela thanks very much for that, I will try and track down the original cable.

I have connected the network management card to the network, so what software do I install to manage it ?

Thanks for your help

[BillP · Accepted solution]

It comes set for DHCP. The Network Management Card has its own built in web, telnet, ssh, or FTP server. Web, telnet, and FTP are enabled by default. To configure the management card with TCP/IP settings, follow this link I referred to earlier -> How do you make a Network Management Card communicate on a network? | FAQs | Schneider Electric US. Then, you can just enter the IP address in the web browser and that's how you access the management card.