[IEC 61439 for LV equipment April 16th 2020 webinar] - Please post your questions before in this Forum

[Jean_Commeignes]

Dear members, 

Thursday April 16th 2020 webinar will be a major opportunity to learn more about IEC 61439 new standard.

s

This is an outstanding opportunity to upstreamly raise your own questions, and get specific answers from Schneider Electric experts.

So, please feel free to use this Forum to post your questions!

Best regards

[coline]

Type your questions here

[Anonymous user]

Do we have the right to request certified verification tests (apart from the typical routine tests) of our specified assembly from the panel builder for every project, before site installation?

[pusenicnik]

Hi Pascal, 

Great presentation, thank you

Have 2 questions please:

Based on which criteria original manufacturers select configurations for testing e.g. for temperature rise verification or Icw?

Do original manufacturers like Schneider sometimes have specific requests from the customers to take additional tests in the lab for temperature rise verification or Icw?

[matthew_fun]

Hello Pascal, from your experience with carrying out or putting SE products through the various tests in the laboratory for IEC61439 certification, what are the top 3 tests which you think panel builders have the most difficulty passing? Thank you.

[Anonymous user]

Q: Is it acceptable to provide certificate from suppliers eg. plastic and from vendors as part of IEC 61439 compliance to strength of material?

Q: The switchboard test sample, for example Short Circuit Test, IP test and Internal Arc test, is it possible to perform the test without incomer circuit breakers and outgoing feeder and starter loads, just test the busbars arrangement and the switchboard structure and the IEC 61439 certificate is still valid?

Q: How do we do Design Verification for Temperature Rise and Short Circuit verification, are there and methods to recommend? 

[PascalL · Accepted solution]

Yes, it can be considered as normal to have a full package off documents, including the certification tests, the unifilar diagram, the coordination plan, the setting of the devices, the routine test results, the remarks during the commissioning. The most difficult is to to keep these documents in live during the life usage of the assembly.

Pascal Lepretre

Standardization officer - Edison Expert

[PascalL · Accepted solution]

First question:

"Based on which criteria original manufacturers select configurations for testing e.g. for temperature rise verification or Icw?"

To cover a full range of rating of an offer, my usual answer is to say there is a need to present several configurations. It is difficult to imagine to present one assembly at 3200A and imagine it will cover the range between 630 - 3200. 

Depending the certification body requirements perhaps the needs would be 3 configurations or 4 depending the design changes between the different rating. You have to know more and more business require to have one certification to one rating.

Second question:

"Do original manufacturers like Schneider sometimes have specific requests from the customers to take additional tests in the lab for temperature rise verification or Icw?"

Yes sure, in some cases complementary tests are made to convince the customers. It could be also based on technical study or simulations depending the request

Pazscal Lepretre

Standardization officer - Edison Expert

[PascalL · Accepted solution]

In a nutshell, the more difficult tests on my point of view are temperature-rise, short-circuit and IP tests.

It is directly linked to the knowledge required to pass those tests. 

You have to understand the physics, the different phenomenas, as thermal effect, magnetic effect, mechanical design.

Pascal LEpretre

Standardization officer - Edison Expert

[PascalL · Accepted solution]

Hello,

Following your Q1: Is it acceptable to provide certificate from suppliers eg. plastic and from vendors as part of IEC 61439 compliance to strength of material?

To the verification of clause 10.2.3.2, it is allowed to provide certificate from supplier. This is allowed in Table D.1 and the standard specify: "As an alternative the original manufacturer shall provide data on the suitability of materials
from the insulating material supplier to demonstrate compliance with the requirements of
8.1.3.2.3."

Following Q2: The switchboard test sample, for example Short Circuit Test, IP test and Internal Arc test, is it possible to perform the test without incomer circuit breakers and outgoing feeder and starter loads, just test the busbars arrangement and the switchboard structure and the IEC 61439 certificate is still valid?

For short-circuit test, IP test it is possible to perform the test without incoming circuit-breakers and outgoing feeders. For internal Arc, you have to make the test on a representative configuration. But...in the TR61641, it is said that any test on any configuration can be performed according to an agreement between user and manufacturer.

Following Q3: How do we do Design Verification for Temperature Rise and Short Circuit verification, are there and methods to recommend? 

To this answer I used the contain already proposed as:

To cover a full range of rating of an offer, my usual answer is to say there is a need to present several configurations. It is difficult to imagine to present one assembly at 3200A and imagine it will cover the range between 630 - 3200. 

Depending the certification body requirements perhaps the needs would be 3 configurations or 4 depending the design changes between the different rating. You have to know more and more business require to have one certification to one rating.

To the short-circuit, to cover a full range of catalogue, it is useful to demonstrate your tests are based on the worst cases and cover the other part of your catalogue.

Pascal Lepretre

Standardization officer - Edison Expert.

[Anonymous user]

Hello, there is the link of the Webinar or was not recorded ? 

[coline · Accepted solution]

Hello,

you can find here the slides: https://schneider-electric.box.com/shared/static/8m2kasn0qksmw2ha5hyit3fjc1gjc7g3.pptx

here is the record: https://schneider-electric.box.com/shared/static/ds15jqgmohikjz7ydkkmqcbtk7xisw7h.mp4

Thank you!

[Anonymous user]

Thanks 

[AhmedHegazy27]

can you please reshare the record?