Diversity factors are not considered bug need to be fixed

[Ahmed2004]

The software doesnot reflect the upstream load current (Ib) based on the diversity factors that assigned for each busbars or each final load.

According to the above the software gives oversizing for the relavent cable and source based on those Ib(s) which is not correct (its not practicable to assigne the Ib for each upstream CB for the data entry field in the CB properties).

Please find below link to download the file for you review.

Used version 4.9.9 and 5

https://www.mediafire.com/file/6i0bctp3f2u0jbs/Test_to_SCh.eac/file

[Ahmed2004]

many thanks for your reply, for more explination, the software do the following for the above example (Test to SCh.eac):

First issue:
a. The assigned KU for the final panel (L.DS01 and L.DS02) is 0.1 and for the panel (L.DS03) is 0.07 and the assigned KS for the submain panel (S01-DPR.) is 0.5, this means the total demand load for this panel should be 232 kVA as indicated in the software which is correct, but the upstream (Ib) for this panel it indicated on the software based on the KS and KU = 1 (Ib = 852A) based on the total connected load which is (590 kVA), which means the software neglect all the assigned factors, actually in this case the Ib at the CB (D.DPR) should be equal (335A), and the cable shall be sized accordingly, please be noted that, all the upstream panel have the same issues upto the transformer which gives huge oversizing.

Second issue:

a. If I create a new SLD, the software can consider all the KS and KU in the frist time of calculation of the upstream Ib, but If I closed the calculation file and open it again the software shows the KS and KU but doesnot consider them in the upstrem Ib claculation. (please refer to (New Test to SCh 01.eac) at the below link).

https://www.mediafire.com/file/e6doxoiu8y8ywmx/New_Test_to_SCh_01.eac/file

b. When I tried to solve the above issue temperory, just I switched the main CB (transfomer downstream CB) OFF then ON, accordingly the software updating the upstram Ib, this is also very big issue need to be solved from roots.

Third issue:

a. For the file that I sent in the main post (Test to SCh.eac), the above solution (which mentioned on the second issue (b) is not working), since the software doesnot updating the Ib after switching the main CB OFF then ON, which means the software have differnt behaviors with each calculation file.

Forth issue:

I have another file that the SLD built based on 50hz, and its not possible to change the frequiency to 60Hz, where this also possible for the other files (I will attach this file latter on, since its not ready with me now).

Sorry for this long text, but every body knows that, the ecodial software is very trusted by many of design orgnization and consultanty, but the above issues make it (in some how in the current version) unreliable.

[Genghiz]

Hello Ahmed,

Thanks for reaching us through the EcoStruxure Power Design – Forum.

The Ks & Ku:

These factors are mainly used in the software to size the ‘source’ of the network.

The simultaneity (Ks-diversity) and the Ku (utilization) can be momentary for an electrical network.

This should not impact the ‘size of the cable (or) the protection selection.’

Suggestion:

The usage of these factor along with operating mode; will help you to understand the worst-case scenario. Whereas all the loads can be working together (Ks=1) and all the loads may be consuming on its defined values (Ku=1). So, the usage of these factors should not impact the “cable and protection sizing.”

Application behaviour:

As reviewed by our colleagues from different countries (during the product development), this has been accepted as expected behaviour.

Thanks & Regards,

Team - Ecodial Expert Support

[Ahmed2004]

Hi Genghiz,

its my honerd to be one of the members of the EcoStruxure power design forum

I agree with you for the above sentance regarding to the KU and KS "This should not impact the ‘size of the cable (or) the protection selection" , this is totally right for the final load only, but for the upstrem feeder cables and CB's upto the source, this cannot considred right, since those factos are finally considred as reduction factors.

I'm awaiting your feedback for the two examples that are attached above.

[Ahmed2004]

Please find attched files for more calrification about this issues (Second issue)

https://www.mediafire.com/file/iu6scoavk0nn4al/New_Test_to_SCh_01.eac.zip/file

[Ahmed2004]

Here is the same example after playing with the Ks and Ku but its ok even after closing and opening the project !!!!

(which means the software have differnt behaviors with each calculation file) !!

https://www.mediafire.com/file/9vj3vbux7rz9t8f/New_Test_to_SCh_02.zip/file

[Genghiz]

Hello Ahmed,

Thanks for your understanding on the usage of the ‘Ks & Ku factors.’

As you agreed the there is no impact of these factors on the ‘final load circuits’ and they will be sized for the full rating of the loads.

For the question on the feeders & the source circuits.

These factors cannot be considered as reduction factors…due to the operating scenario of the worst case (Full consumption of loads {ku=1}and when they will be working together {ks=1} as group of loads.) needs to be considered to size them.

Regards,

Team – Ecodial Expert Support.

[Ahmed2004]

Hi Genghiz,

Can you please check all the attcehed files and aso the pdf's, also please check the Ib for each case, accordingly we can discuss (there is something wrong, and we need your advises !!)

[Genghiz]

Hello Ahmed,

Thanks for your efforts in explaining the scenario.

Agreed:

• This is an issue during the file opening.
• Yes, you have revealed this issue, that is occurring at the time of file opening.
• The application has good/expected behaviour during the normal operation of the network.
• Whereas the reopening of the project has not maintained, some input for the power calculation.

Next Steps:

• This scenario is explained to the software development team and reported for the fix/improvement.
• We will keep you posted on the status.

Thanks & Regards,

Team – Ecodial Expert Support.

[Genghiz · Accepted solution]

Hello Ahmed,

In continuation with the acceptance of the issue “in retaining the right current values at the feeders” (while opening the project).  

As a workaround, It is suggested lock the values of Ib(A) at the circuit breakers during the normal design (before saving the project).

Use the lock to reatin the feeder current value

This may help you in avoiding the issue, while opening the project.

Regards,

Team - Ecodial Expert Support.

[Ahmed2004]

Hi Genghiz,

Thanks for your support, waiting for the fix of the software.

[SI_part_EcoXpert_BMSMaster]

Thanks for clarifying these doubts. Have faced them, and thanks to tour replies in this thread. was able to satisfactorily deal with it. However, please advise your L1/L2 ecostruure power design support team to be atleast responsive. Too many queries to them dont even get a response. 

[Genghiz]

Hello,

During the file opening and maintaining the 'given value' for the Ku & Ks has been fixed, and delivered as part of the 'International version.'

This can be verified at the version - EcoStruxure Power Design - Ecodial INT V5.02

Thanks & Regards,

Team - Ecodial Expert Support

[Ahmed2004]

Hi Genghiz,

Unfortunately, not yet solved in the latest version v5.02

[EDBAS]

KS / KU ARE NOT WORKING AS DERATING FACTORS. WE HOPE THE DEV TEAM WILL RELEASE THE NEXT VERSION SOONER. AND ALSO ADD AN OPTION TO RENAME CKTS FASTERS. FOR 1 CKT IT SHALL BEAR THE NAME OF THE LOAD. RATHER ADJUST INDIVIDUALLY THE BREAKER, CABLE, AND CIRCUIT NAME.

[Genghiz]

Hello,

There was an issue in managing the given values (while opening the project file) and this has been fixed during the last release.

Can you please provide some additional information.

Regards,

Team - Ecodial Expert Support.