FIRE: APC Mobile Surge Protector...

[Anonymous user]

Woke up this morning to a snap crackle pop... but I don't eat cereal...
(click image then click again for full-size image)

http://img525.imageshack.us/i/apcfire1.jpg
!http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/1732/apcfire1.th.jpg!

http://img3.imageshack.us/i/apcfire2.jpg/
!http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/3064/apcfire2.th.jpg!
The thick & heavy floor protector is now fused to the carpet.

http://img63.imageshack.us/i/apcfire3.jpg/
!http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/6619/apcfire3.th.jpg!
Yep, I got lucky.

http://img3.imageshack.us/i/apcfire4.jpg/
!http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/7310/apcfire4.th.jpg!
APC Mobile Surge Suppressor / Protector.

There was absolutely no reason (such as a surge) for this to occur. The product is defective. One of my customers has the exact same model and already spoke with him this morning. I've called the toll-free number on the product and alerted them as well.

If you know someone who has this model then call them ASAP and tell them to discard it immediately. I just happened to be sleeping near my laptop but it could've just as easily been plugged up in the basement.

11y06m19d12h20m59s
Message was edited by: PNOTEPROC6
Corrected formatting on image links.
BTW, the fire blackened the wood floor underneath! (luck, luck, luck)

[Anonymous user]

I should also point out that this is a bedroom line, meaning little on the circuit and in the middle of the night means what little there is, most of which is off.

=====

Also, "lifetime" for just about ALL, if not all, products does not translate to infinite, FYI. After all, MOVs do not last forever and it is common knowledge that your surge protector looses it's effectiveness over time. It would be illogical to warrant the product indefinitely. Many SP products in general will continue to operate even after their MOVs have been compromised. The PNOTEPROC6 device continued to deliver power to my laptop even while it was on fire.

Personally a natural born skeptic, and so many years ago had briefly taken a closer look at that "EPP" claims. So everything that I've stated up until this point is from memory.

But you've tweaked my curiosity again so now Googling the policy and product warranty... (this is just the EPP not warranty)
http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:DCcyZ4PQi78J:https://apc.com/support/service/equipment_protectio...
...and there are more ways out of the "EPP" than I can count. Also, did you register your product via the included warranty card within the first 10 days of purchase ? Likely not. So umm, anything happens you're on your own. Again, that only covers connected equipment. So if it burns your house down then at most they might pay Orion Blue Book value for your laptop. (nevermind any critical data and nevermind that BB value won't be enough to purchase a replacement) But any corporate lawyer worth his pay would advise taking some clause out of paying for the connected equipment because that would admit fault which would subsequently open them up for liability lawsuits on damage and health claims.

null

[Techie_apc]

hmm..was there any damage to the connected equipment? If not, i believe that the MOV in the surge protector might have scarified itself to protect the connected equipment. as far as I know, APC has not identified any potential issues with this model. this product comply with UL 1449 standard, and it meets the following regulatory approvals:CSA,FCC Part 68,NOM,UL Listed. the Let Through Voltage Rating of this model is < 330. for your information, any surge protectors require a wall outlet that is properly grounded in order for it to provide optimal surge protection. If the outlet that the APC unit is plugged into is not properly grounded or properly wired, the unit will attempt to absorb the excess voltage instead of redirect it to ground. It would be like attempting to catch a bullet with a catcher mit, where as if the light is not on it would be able to redirect the excess voltage to ground. therefore, please make sure that the outlet is properly grounded. Secondly, this unit comes with Lifetime : $75000 Equipment Protection Policy. I recommend you to call in the customer care center in case if any connected equipment damaged.

[Anonymous user]

I wouldn't have bothered to post had there been some common-sense reason for this but hey, you don't know me from Eve, so let's proceed. 🙂

So to cover the common-sense, I'd say that's pretty much impossible. There were no surge conditions present. Clear weather and one that large would've damaged other electronics on the same line. House current is stable at ~120v with Hot Neutral and Ground properly wired. AC frequency was close to 60Hz last I tested. The 6' 3-prong wire had gold-plated contacts and was firmly plugged into the APC suppressor device. There is no evidence to show that there was shorting or poor connection between the AC input cord and device. (in fact the ground and hot prongs came out with the cord as shown in photo)

Whole house surge suppressor (good type) --> Wall socket --> ~12 outlet surge protector --> ~6 outlet strip --> APC inline Mobile Surge Protector --> AC Power adapter --> Laptop

There were two other items plugged in on the 6-strip. A number of items on the 12-socket. Also noticed the overload light flickering on the 12-socket protector until I yanked the cord from the firery APC device.

What I suspect happened is one of the MOVs (Metal-Oxide Verasitors) decided to go bad and continuously short directly to ground. Either that or a bad solder joint built-up too much resistance. But I'd say the former is more likely. Once I get more time I'll split it open but needless to say the case is smelted together.

Bottom line is a thermal fuse would've prevented this altogether. Even if this device were at anytime hit with some massive surge, or exposed to a device that drew excess current, it should NOT catch fire, it should open the circuit.

One of the first things I did after yanking the plug was feel the laptop's AC adapter. I could tell the laptop wasn't drawing excess amperage because ordinarily whenever I'm working it to death, (cpu-intensive multi-tasking + charging multiple USB devices + operating a few peripherals + charging the battery,) the AC adapter brick can get pretty warm. But it was only at normal to below-normal temperature for operating the laptop at idle with no peripherals and no battery charging. (battery is still in great shape too)

I'm typing this message on the same equipment that was attached so it wasn't damaged. Obviously I had to purchase another ($15) wall to AC adapter cord as the one pictured is unusable now.

But no, I'm not interested in suing getting rich or gaming some system. My only interest is to warn others, APC included, so that a personal disaster can be potentially avoided and future designs altered to mitigate the chance of this occurring.

[Anonymous user]

Oh, and I believe that the $75,000 equipment protection only applies during the product's warranty period... not that $75k would be enough to cover a major fire anyway...

[BillP]

EPP value is lifetime, FYI.

[upsguy_apc]

http://www.electric-company.com/images/Overload.jpg

From your description your wall outlet must look about like this. Just FYI from the description you gave this outlet is way overloaded. Its easy to point a finger at a possibly faulty device, however you should know to never plug that many devices into a single wall outlet.

Message was edited by: upsguy

[Anonymous user]

Oh, and the $75k only covers attached equipment AFAIK.

===========

Forgive me for being a little testy at this point but umm, no.

That would qualify under "common sense explanation" I mentioned earlier. The outlet isn't even close to being overloaded. As was mentioned, two items on the six-strip... that being a Westell 327W wireless router (~12v 1a peak) and a 5v 500ma phone charger. The ~twelve socket has a few other small electronics such as a stereo. But most of the outlets are unoccupied/off. The six strip is only used as an extension cord to bring a few outlets out from underneath the desk. But common-sense says we don't plug sweepers refridgerators washers dryers and other high-amperage drawing devices into these outlets. No, none of the outlets are scorched. No, none of the outlets have corroded contacts. Yes, the prongs on the laptop's AC plug are (still) in perfect shape. (other side as was mentioned, is now unusable)

Bottom line...
T H E P R O D U C T I S D E F E C T I V E .

Keep this BS up and I'm heading straight to the nearest news sites.

I'd appreciate a response from the manufacturer.

null

[BillP]

"Keep this BS up and I'm heading straight to the nearest news sites."

Just out of curiosity, who are you threatening there? upsguy? APC? I don't think upsguy is affiliated with APC...

[Anonymous user]

It was late... technically early... hadn't been to bed I was cranky and easily annoyed... you get the picture.

Call it a pet peeve but find it rather annoying when for example, something doesn't work and you get back responses like 'you didn't plug it in' or 'try flicking the on/off switch'. (implying that it's operator error versus a problem with the actual product)

When I read other peoples' posts I typically assume that the obvious has been tried and/or accounted for. Yes, I know people sometimes do overlook the obvious (human nature) but you're supposed to be clairvoyant to the point of knowing me very well even though you've never met me and all you have to go on are a few words over the internet.

Yes, I'm not being totally serious here.

No, I'm not crazy.

Would you please be quiet already.

Yes, I'm still being facetious. (no insult intended)

;)

[Anonymous user]

Woke up this morning to a snap crackle pop... but I don't eat cereal...
(click image then click again for full-size image)

http://img525.imageshack.us/i/apcfire1.jpg
!http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/1732/apcfire1.th.jpg!

http://img3.imageshack.us/i/apcfire2.jpg/
!http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/3064/apcfire2.th.jpg!
The thick & heavy floor protector is now fused to the carpet.

http://img63.imageshack.us/i/apcfire3.jpg/
!http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/6619/apcfire3.th.jpg!
Yep, I got lucky.

http://img3.imageshack.us/i/apcfire4.jpg/
!http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/7310/apcfire4.th.jpg!
APC Mobile Surge Suppressor / Protector.

There was absolutely no reason (such as a surge) for this to occur. The product is defective. One of my customers has the exact same model and already spoke with him this morning. I've called the toll-free number on the product and alerted them as well.

If you know someone who has this model then call them ASAP and tell them to discard it immediately. I just happened to be sleeping near my laptop but it could've just as easily been plugged up in the basement.

11y06m19d12h20m59s
Message was edited by: PNOTEPROC6
Corrected formatting on image links.
BTW, the fire blackened the wood floor underneath! (luck, luck, luck)

[Anonymous user]

You're not going to hear from APC. As an electrician and engineer for 35 years I can assure you of that! You violated every common sense rule as to the use of this kind of device. Read http://www.compliance.gov/forms-pubs/eresources/fastfacts_daisychains.pdf and numerous other similar articles easily found on the internet.

[Anonymous user · Accepted solution]

+<< ........ A suggestion for future designs, if it hasn't already been implemented, would be to add a thermal fuse to the product. ........... Bottom line is a thermal fuse would've prevented this altogether. Even if this device were at anytime hit with some massive surge, or exposed to a device that drew excess current, it should NOT catch fire, it should open the circuit. ......... >>+

Greetings. APC may have finally begun implementing this change in some of their products.

By the way, here is another case of similar happening...
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=1138345
...though different about his case, there was an actual (wiring) fault (no grounding) present.
So this fire situation should be easily reproduced in a test lab.
(Underwriters Laboratories guidelines need to be updated)

Anyway, was recently looking to acquire another digital programmable outlet timer, but the local electronics store was out of stock on the 8-Daily Program Westinghouse Models. ( http://thencc.com/Westinghouse/Item.asp?CategoryID=2617&SubCategoryID=2624&StyleID=24197 - says "6-daily" but one I have is "8-daily") This devicelists a 10A limit and is not a surge suppressor BTW; identified as a resistive tungsten switch.

Going to look elsewhere to purchase a timer but before leaving, decided to look more closely at the only other option/brand available (that being APC) and noticed the following in it's description...
+<and Thermal fuse* ensure instantaneous reaction to lightning strikes and wiring faults. If the surge components are damaged due to power spike or over voltage, excess power cannot reach your equipment. Unlike the APC SurgeArrest products, most surge suppressors continue to let power through even after circuits have been damaged, leaving your equipment exposed to other damaging surges. safe, which means that once the circuit of an APC SurgeArrest has been compromised the unit disconnects equipment from the power supply ensuring that no damaging surges reach your equipment.>>+

Praises on adding that. APC needs to ensure that this thermal fuse goes into ALL of it's surge products AND descriptions. (the other APC timer did not list such detail)

I know they're regarded as a joke in some if not many circles, but will see about sending a recommendation to Underwriters Laboratories based on these and similar incidences. As mentioned their testing and guidelines should be updated regarding all products from all manufacturers.

Thanks for the venue. 🙂