AP9630 and 3 phase Symmetra problems...

[jfeiber_apc]

This was originally posted on APC forums on 1/3/2014

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Greetings -

I am trying to upgrade two 3 phase UPS's, a Symmetra 16kVA Power Array and a Symmetra 8kVA Power Array,  from AP9617's to AP9630's.    The cards install and power up properly but they do not see the UPS hardware or access any UPS status.

Both cards are currently running v6.0.6 firmware.   On the firmware upgrades page I found "Network Management Card v5.1.6 Firmware for Symmetra 3-Phase with AP9630/31".   I tried to install 5.1.6 from the Firmware Upgrade Utility on the first AP9630 and  I received the error "ERROR --> Disallow AOS downgrade".   I looked around but did not find clear instructions for a downgrade.   One set of instructions suggested power cycling the UPS, which is not an option for us given the equipment attached to the UPS cannot be power cycled.

Will the AP9630's work with our UPS's?   If so can someone suggest the proper procedure or firmware?   We'd like to go to AP9630's to get current firmware on our UPS's but can continue to use the AP9617's if required.

Thank you - Jon

[BillP]

This reply was originally posted by Angela on APC forums on 1/3/2014

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Hi Jon,

Thankfully, we can help you out pretty easily. The firmware that comes on new AP9630/31s is for Smart UPS which is majority of the install base. For your UPSs, they use different applications.

For your Symmetra 3 phase, you did find the right firmware but the current wizard does not allow downgrades (which we are adjusting in future versions of the wizard). You can downgrade it via FTP or one of the manual methods though using these instructions -> How do I upgrade the firmware on an APC Network Management Card? | FAQs | Schneider Electric US - Symmetra 3 phase does not have a v6 firmware out yet so what you downloaded is the latest.

For Symmetra single phase, we do have a version 6 for the sy application. (If you check your About->Network in the web UI currently, you'll see it has the sumx module which is for Smart UPS). But, I feel I should let you know about this article (Network Management Card 2 Firmware v6.X.X FAQ/Upgrade Issues | FAQs | Schneider Electric US) to be fair (which most of it seems to only apply on upgrades which you're not doing). I'd stick with 6 if there are no issues that'd affect you and look for part number SFSY606 on our website (http://www.apc.com/tools/download/index.cfm -> filter by software/firmware - Firmware Upgrades - Network Management Card) to download (firmware for symmetra single phase). Version 6 does have a lot of new, nice features. You'll notice upon downloading it, it should also refer you to that kbase I just noted.

• So in summary, for your Symmetra 3 phase, downgrade the firmware using AOS 5.1.9/sy3p 5.1.6 files you have downloaded and pick one of the manual methods listed in the provided instructions.

• For Symmetra single phase, decide if you want to stick with version 6, and if so, obtain SFSY606 firmware download and the wizard should work since it won't be a "downgrade" (or use any method in the kbase) and if you don't want 6, let me know and I'll get you the latest version 5 for symmetra single phase but you lose out on some nice features.

Hope that helps!

[jfeiber_apc]

This was originally posted on APC forums on 1/3/2014

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Angela -

Thanks for the quick reply.

I upload the 3 files, so "About" has Application Module sys3p v. 5.1.6; APC OS v.5.1.9, and the Boot Monitor v1.0.2.   Unfortunately, it still doesn't see the UPS.

Also, 5.1.6 seems identical to 3.7.2.   If that is the case it doesn't seem worth the upgrade to the AP9630 from the AP9617.   Will there ever be a v6 that supports the older 3 phase Symmetra's?

Thanks again - Jon

[Battman_apc]

This was originally posted on APC forums on 1/3/2014

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HI just wanted to point out that technically *neither* of your two Symmetra ups  are Three Phase, but rather they are Single Phase units.  Make sure you do not accidentally use any firmware files that have "3p" in the name of the .exe zip or the .bin files.  Good luck !

[BillP]

This reply was originally posted by Angela on APC forums on 1/3/2014

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Oh - I just saw Battman's response and missed it myself. I apologize!!

Both should use SFSY606 since yes, they are both Symmetra single phase units. Can you reflash that other one? Again, I am sorry I missed that in the first post and thank you David Indita-Jones for catching it and letting us know.

Since you asked also, while the web interface of 5.1.X on AP9630/31 look pretty much the same as the 3.X.X on AP9617/18/19, the back end is quite different and there are many features that the older cards don't have including IPv6, basic email authentication, change SMTP port, language packs, and command line interface for easy scripting. It's also a lot faster speedwise and offers higher bit encryption.

For those that do have Symmetra 3 phase units, as of now, no project is started for Symmetra 3 phase but if it is important to you, let me know and I can always pass the feedback along like how many units you have, what you need in it, etc to justify starting a project.

[BillP]

This reply was originally posted by Angela on APC forums on 1/3/2014

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The Symmetra LX  domestic units used here in the USA work off of 208 or 240 volt "2 phase" if you will which is considered single phase (to us at least). You're feeding it two hot legs, a neutral, and a ground. The actual symmetra 3 phase units we offer would work of three hot legs, and perhaps a neutral with ground at 208V 3 phase or I imagine some are 480V 3 phase too. I am not an expert on three phase but definitely on the single phase stuff and it can be a little confusing with the 208V and 240V being called "single phase." Perhaps your LX units use two of the three phases provided by your utility feed to the building?

Did you get it working by the way?

[jfeiber_apc]

This was originally posted on APC forums on 1/3/2014

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Thanks!

I am confused, I thought my units were 3 phase?  (We have 3 phase 208V power on site.)    Input voltage is 206V and output voltage is 211V on the UPS.

[Battman_apc]

This was originally posted on APC forums on 1/3/2014

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The Symmetra's you have draw power off two out of the three incoming phases / ( two out of the three  "hot" conductors) and do not use the Neutral. They are classified as single phase ups because there is no 'rotation of the current / voltage cycles" when you use only two phases like there is when you use all three. Three phase 208 volt power is very common for commercial / institutional / industrial sites such as yours (and mine !), as opposed to the "dual or split phase" power we have coming into our homes where we have 240 or 120 volts.

[Battman_apc]

This was originally posted on APC forums on 1/3/2014

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Oops - sorry did not see Angela N's reply before I posted mine ... Good job, Angela!

[BillP]

This reply was originally posted by Angela on APC forums on 1/3/2014

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Thanks but Symmetra LX's do require a neutral. The old Symmetra Power Arrays did not and generated a neutral from the isolation transformer.

[Battman_apc]

This was originally posted on APC forums on 1/3/2014

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I should clarify, while the L1 and L2/N phase connectors into the Symmetra are always classified as being "hot" for North America usage, in Europe the "L2/N" connector into the Symmetra is technically called the "Neutral"...

[Battman_apc]

This was originally posted on APC forums on 1/3/2014

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I stand corrected ! I was thinking of the old Masterframe Symettras...Good catch, Angela!

[jfeiber_apc · Accepted solution]

This was originally posted on APC forums on 1/3/2014

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Angela and Battman -

Thank you both for the information and description!   I installed 6.0.6 for Symmetra and it went without a hitch and came up recognizing the UPS.

I really appreciate the quick responses.

Best for 2014!   Jon