ULP Systems

[jedzruiz1985]

Hi Xperts,

Just want to confirm, if multiple ACBs (MTZ) have their own IFM stacked to an IFE server (daisy chained via stacking connectors),  do we still need to provide separate 24VDC on each ULP module of the breakers even though the IFM is providing 24V already from the IFE Server thru the IFMs?

Thanks in advance,

Jiedan

[Guillaume_Evrard · Accepted solution]

Hello @jedzruiz1985 

For MTZ I would say that the 24VDC connector is feeding the communication but also the Micrologic. You are right that stacking connector is feeding the IFM. For Masterpact NT/NW you do not need to have separated PSU for BCM ULP but for MTZ yes it is mandatory as per ULP manual:

Kind Regards

[Romain_Polette · Accepted solution]

Hello @jedzruiz1985 , 

Please refer to the Micrologic X User Guide to better know how this trip unit is power supplied:

According to this section of the ULP Guide:

The ULP port module:

• Supplies power to the MicroLogic X control unit.
• Has an integrated ULP line termination.
• Enables the connection to external ULP modules, like the IO module or the IFE interface.

For MasterPacT MTZ drawout circuit breakers with optional EIFE interface, the ULP port module:

• Supplies power to the EIFE interface.
• Connects the EIFE interface to the other IMU modules (for example, IO module).

There is a dedicated ULP Power Supply section in the ULP guide:

• ULP port module for MasterPacT MTZ circuit breakers => Must be connected to a 24 Vdc power supply and cannot be powered through its ULP port.
• IFE Ethernet switchboard server => Must be connected to a 24 Vdc power supply and cannot be powered through its ULP port.
• IFM Modbus-SL interface for one circuit breaker => Must be connected to a 24 Vdc power supply and cannot be powered through its ULP port.

Tl;dr:

• MTZ ULP port must be supplied by 24DC
• IFE must be powered by 24DC
• You can stack up to 11 IFM to an IFE

 Regards, 

[jedzruiz1985]

Thanks very much!

So 1 24VDC on the IFE Server, and 1 24VDC on the ULP ports of the MTZ breakers. 

Another question, is it ok to use IFMs on the MTZs? Lets say 11 IFMs maxed out with 11MTZ breakers. Or do we really need the IFE (LV434001) for each MTZ breaker?

[Guillaume_Evrard]

Hello,

You can use IFM but the new ones as far as I remember.

Kind Regards

[Romain_Polette]

Hello @jedzruiz1985 , 

You can use IFM on MTZ.

Mounting instruction here:

https://www.productinfo.schneider-electric.com/mtz_modbus_communication/doca0105-masterpact-mtz-modb...

It really depends on your communication speed requirements.

As an exemple: MTZ + IFM is not recommended in Data Center architectures. Better use MTZ + EIFE.

With IFE or EIFE, you will have the benefit of:

• Ethernet communication speed
• Embedded Standard Dataset

If it is OK to use IFM:

• 1 MTZ / IFE + 10 MTZ / IFM => IFE will be the gateway for all MTZ
• 11 MTZ / IFM + 1 PAS600 or PAS800 => Panel Server as a gateway

Regards, 

[jedzruiz1985]

Thanks!

Is there an advantage of using a Panel server over IFE Server? 

Also, there is this new release, Modbus SL Hub, apparently MTZ breakers don't work on this as this is Modbus and not ULP? 

[Guillaume_Evrard]

Hello @jedzruiz1985 

IFE with Modbus is one ULP gateway for one breaker and one modbus tcp gateway for serial devices.

You have also IFE without modbus.

PAS can be used as a replacement of the modbus gateway function of the IFE. You can connect the IFM to PAS or to IFE with modbus.

IFE is also allowing the stacking connection.

Kind Regards

[jedzruiz1985]

Hi Guillaume,

In terms of features of PAS over IFE server, is there any advantage using PAS? 

[jedzruiz1985]

Thanks for the support, however, we have additional questions with regards to the same project that we have.

Can we control the ACB's (MTZ) closing and opening of the breaker using IFEs and IFMs? What will be the additional accessories required on the MTZ breakers?

Thanks in advance

[Romain_Polette]

Hello @jedzruiz1985 , 

Any question related to MTZ, IFE/IFM can be asked here:

https://community.se.com/t5/Power-Distribution-IEC/ct-p/iec-ecosystems-associated-standards

This forum is now mainly dedicated to Panel Server. 

"In terms of features of PAS over IFE server, is there any advantage using PAS? "

=> See my previous post. Advantage of the IFE / EIFE for breakers is:

• the access to the Standard Dataset (faster comm speed when 1x IFE per breaker)
• RBAC (will come later for Panel Server)
• IFM stacked with IFE (improve cabling)
• Management of full ULP system (IO Module, FDM121)
• Web interface dedicated to digital breaker system / remote breaker control (not possible with PAS)
• You can also integrate IO Smart Link to your IFE/IFM architecture

=> IFM for each breaker has also Standard Dataset, but serial Modbus communication is slower

=> Any Modbus Master (including Panel Server) can access to IFM dataset trough Modbus Serial

"Also, there is this new release, Modbus SL Hub, apparently MTZ breakers don't work on this as this is Modbus and not ULP? "

=> Modbus SL Hub is dedicated to ComPacT NSX + new BSCM module. I'm not aware of any native Modbus SL out of the Micrologic X. New Micrologic Active is not compatible with ULP or Modbus (only wireless with Panel Server).

=> You can stack SL Hub with IFM

"Can we control the ACB's (MTZ) closing and opening of the breaker using IFEs and IFMs? What will be the additional accessories required on the MTZ breakers?"

=> You can control breakers directly from IFE Web interface (breaker connected to IFE and IFM)

=> Any Modbus Master can send Control Command to open/close MTZ (through IFE or IFM)

=> Refer to the MTZ User Manual for any question related to control modes

=> To control MTZ through communication, MTZ must be equiped with IFE / IFM + ULP Port + MX (open) + XF (close) + Spring charging motor (MCH)

Regards,

[jedzruiz1985]

Hi Romain,

Thank you.

Is it MX-COM and XF-COM you mean? Publication 0614DB1801 shows both MX, MX-COM and XF, XF-COM... We just want to make sure which is the right one to use.

Best regards,

Jedz

[Romain_Polette]

Hello @jedzruiz1985 , 

You're correct !! This is important when you want to remote control the MTZ.

This is explained in the MTZ User Manual:

https://www.productinfo.schneider-electric.com/masterpactmtz2-3userguide/doca0101-mtz2-3-user-guide/...

Also thanks for sharing the 0614DB1801. I was not aware of this useful doc.

Thanks !

[jedzruiz1985]

Thanks Xperts. 😃