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SUA1500 - Is it time to replace battery?

APC UPS Data Center & Enterprise Solutions Forum

Schneider Electric support forum for our Data Center and Business Power UPS, UPS Accessories, Software, Services, and associated commercial products designed to share knowledge, installation, and configuration.

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sfernan_apc
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SUA1500 - Is it time to replace battery?

This was originally posted on APC forums on 12/17/2014


I bought a cheap Used SUA1500 (manuf 2007) and am  trying to get this up and running. 

When I initially turned it on, the REPLACE BATTERY red LED blinked and beeped about 2 times within a minute.  I thought it could be because it was just sitting unused for a while.

The battery then charged to 100 % with no load attached.  I let it sit for about 22 hours. I did not  see or hear any beeps/LED on REPLACE BATTERY for those 22 hours.

When I do a self-test, it passes. However, The battery charged drops from 100% to apprx 73% with NO LOAD attached.

I then let it charge back to 100% and did a Runtime calibration with NO LOAD attached. It ran for about 30 secs but the charge drop signifcanttly to apprx 50%. When I look at the result in the web interface, it says TEST CANCELLED.  However, the BATTERY REPLACE LED did flash for a bit after the test seemed to be cancelled and then turned off.

I repetead the above test with a little load (apprx 7.1%) and get the same results as above.

The battery Voltage is around 27.7 VDC.

I do not know when these batteries were changed before I purchased it.

Are my symptoms typical scenario for a battery replacement as a first step ? Is there any other test I can run to confirm. I am hoping nothing is wrong with the unit itself.

EDIT to add current status

UPS load: 7.1%

Runtime Remaining: 147 Minutes

Battery Charge: 100%


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sfernan_apc
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Re: SUA1500 - Is it time to replace battery?

This was originally posted on APC forums on 12/23/2014


Hi Angela, Thought I would monitor for a few days before I replied.  The AVR trim led lights come on every couple of days (and stay on) for some reason. Last time it said "Power Failed" and "Power Restored". This happened within 3 secs but the AVR led stays on.

To turn it off, I did a self-test from software. That worked. The next time it did not and I had to shutdown for about a minute to clear the LED.

I am expecting it to come on later tonite or tomorrow morning.  I have plugged my other smart UPS (SMT100) in an adjacent room to check if it all gets triggered but I have never seen the SMT1000 with the AVR led on.

See Answer In Context

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BillP
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Re: SUA1500 - Is it time to replace battery?

This reply was originally posted by Angela on APC forums on 12/17/2014


Hello, 

Yes, if anything, it might need a new battery. There may be a date code or serial number on the battery modules themselves if you wanted to check them to get an idea of the age. 

Also, a runtime call ration with no load is not helpful. You should do it with at least 30% load that does not fluctuate more than +/-5 %. And had you issued it via a software command (since I know you are logged into something to see the information you provided)?

just curious because a manual calibration is also an option (not using software to issue the option). But, every time you do this calibration type stuff, the battery life is slowly decreasing anyway.

But, what are you trying to verify? Let me start there.  A runtime calibration is designed to update the available on battery runtime figure reported. This is also actively done during a power event when the UPS is operating on battery for a little while. 

I do agree based on all that you've said, the UPS itself sounds fine and it may just need a battery if you're seeing replace battery LEDs and giant capacity drops with no load. I think 147 minutes is in the ballpark for what you should expect if the battery is a little older with 7% load but this figure is a really good estimate and you'd want to see how long it ran until it turned off (which is a calibration ultimately. Depending on that, it should update itself. 

sfernan_apc
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Re: SUA1500 - Is it time to replace battery?

This was originally posted on APC forums on 12/17/2014


Thanks Angela for the response. I did all tests using the software/browser.  Basically, what I am trying to verify is the health of the battery. I also agree that the battery may be dying slowly.

I will check the age of the battery when I get home.  I may also pick up a new set of batteries today. Will update.

However, can you tell me whats the best thing to do after I replace the battery. Should I connect the load I intend to use and then let it charge for (8, 12, 24 hrs?). After that,  do a self-test and/or manual calibration if the runtime is low ? what should be the estimated runtime for 30-50% load on a new set of SUA1500 batteries.

Thanks for any info

BillP
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Re: SUA1500 - Is it time to replace battery?

This reply was originally posted by Angela on APC forums on 12/17/2014


Hi Samson,

I am glad to help.

When you replace batteries, I'd recommend you install them and then for a Smart-UPS, you should be able to get it all charged up in 8 hours but, you could leave it a little longer before trying to do anything because that will slow the charging process (which I think we both understand). Then, I would do a UPS-self test. After that self test has been completed, any battery replacement LED should go off and you'd be testing that the battery can support your load and that the UPS can transfer successfully to and from battery. From there, this UPS is "smart" (ha!) enough to realize you replaced the battery (in 9/10 cases) and it should update runtime accordingly. If it did not after all of this, then I'd probably personally recommend we do a manual calibration with at least the 30% load, all data cables removed from the UPS, and then let the UPS run until it turns off and discharges fully. Then, it should charge back up and be calibrated. If that does not work, then the last resort would be a reset of a battery value that can be done through serial connection only.

For this UPS, because it is discontinued, we don't have the runtime chart online anymore but I found this which appears extracted for our webiste: http://www.esecuritytogo.com/documents/apc_smart_ups_runtime_chart.pdf so just look for SUA1500 there and at half load, you should expect about 26 minutes, give or take a few minutes.

sfernan_apc
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Re: SUA1500 - Is it time to replace battery?

This was originally posted on APC forums on 12/18/2014


Hi Angela, I managed to buy and install new batteries last night.

Step 1: After, a charge of 12.5 hours, I shutdown the UPS and plugged in my devices into the UPS and powered back on.  I did not notice any red LE on the REPLACE BATTERY plus the charge stayed at 100%.

Step 2: I did self test (software) with all my devices attached and there was a drop in charge of about 11%., ie, from 100 % to 89%.

Currently, I am sitting at 26% load and 52 minutes runtime on 100% charge. The Battery VOltage is 27.7 VDC.

I think its near the estimate based on the chart you provided.  Can you confirm and let me know. Perhaps, I may need to do the calibration as well?

Thanks

sfernan_apc
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Re: SUA1500 - Is it time to replace battery?

This was originally posted on APC forums on 12/18/2014


Hi, another question.

I noticed before I left to work that my AVR trim LED came on and stayed on. This came on  an hour after I put the load on the UPS. I have an SMT1000 that was hooked up to the same load/Same outlet but never saw any AVR issues. Also, I dont see any log messages but I do see the voltage spikes using the console software but its not near to the HIGH VOLTAGE.

Should I be concerned?  I am in North America and the default values are set for both the SUA1500 and SMT1000.

BillP
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Re: SUA1500 - Is it time to replace battery?

This reply was originally posted by Angela on APC forums on 12/18/2014


I do know it is normal for SMT/SMX to drop a little more than SUA during a self test. This is a fairly common question. I am not sure why they do it that way but the 11% drop is what you'll see for SMT/SMX when you do a self test. I would say it is also normal for an SUA, but on those, I see it more commonly drop to something in the 90%'s. I think the runtime reported is OK and I would not do a calibration. When the UPS goes to battery, it will calibrate itself over time and I think the estimate is not grossly inaccurate where I'd recommend you do the calibration and waste a discharge cycle on your new batteries.

What HIGH VOLTAGE are you referencing? The high transfer point? That is the value when it will go to battery and AVR Trim cannot trim the voltage enough using the internal transformer. AVR is a feature that is supposed to "save" your battery so that the UPS does not have to go to battery everytime there is a high (or low voltage). But it can only trim so much.

Can you check the data log and let me know what you see for the input voltage? We should be concerned if AVR is on 24/7 because this feature is meant to be used a few hours here, a few hours there, and not constantly. We'd want to investigate why the input voltage is so high consistently. I cannot find the article that we used to have but my educated guess says that if your input voltage is around 127V, the UPS will start trimming.

sfernan_apc
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Re: SUA1500 - Is it time to replace battery?

This was originally posted on APC forums on 12/18/2014


Date

Time Min Line Voltage
(VAC)
Max Line Voltage
(VAC)
Input Line Voltage
(VAC)
UPS Output Voltage
(VAC)
Output Frequency
(Hz)
Battery Voltage
(VDC)
UPS Load
(%)
Internal UPS Temp
(°C)
12/18/14 16:55:37 N/A N/A 123.8 110.1 60.0 27.67 20.1 23.8
12/18/14 16:35:37 N/A N/A 124.5 110.1 60.0 27.54 18.2 23.4
12/18/14 16:15:37 N/A N/A 124.5 110.1 60.0 27.67 18.2 23.4
12/18/14 15:55:37 N/A N/A 124.5 110.1 60.0 27.67 18.2 22.9
12/18/14 15:35:37 N/A N/A 125.2 110.8 60.0 27.67 18.2 22.9
12/18/14 15:15:37 N/A N/A 124.5 110.1 60.0 27.67 18.2 23.4
12/18/14 14:55:37 N/A N/A 124.5 110.1 60.0 27.67 19.5 23.4
12/18/14 14:35:37 N/A N/A 124.5 110.1 60.0 27.67 18.8 23.4
12/18/14 14:15:37 N/A N/A 124.5 110.1 60.0 27.67 18.2 23.4
12/18/14 13:55:37 N/A N/A 124.5 110.8 60.0 27.67 18.8 23.4
12/18/14 13:35:37 N/A N/A 124.5 110.1 60.0 27.67 20.1 23.8
12/18/14 13:15:37 N/A N/A 124.5 110.1 60.0 27.67 18.2 23.8
12/18/14 12:55:37 N/A N/A 124.5 110.1 60.0 27.67 20.1 23.8
12/18/14 12:35:37 N/A N/A 124.5 110.1 60.0 27.67 18.2 23.8
12/18/14 12:15:37 N/A N/A 124.5 110.1 60.0 27.67 18.8 23.8
12/18/14 11:55:37 N/A N/A 124.5 110.1 60.0 27.67 18.2 23.4
12/18/14 11:35:37 N/A N/A 124.5 110.1 60.0 27.67 18.2 23.8
12/18/14 11:15:37 N/A N/A 123.8 110.1 60.0 27.67 18.8 23.8
12/18/14 10:55:37 N/A N/A 123.8 110.1 60.0 27.67 20.8 23.8
12/18/14 10:35:37 N/A N/A 124.5 110.1 60.0 27.67 18.2 23.8
12/18/14 10:15:37 N/A N/A 124.5 110.1 60.0 27.67 18.2 23.8
12/18/14 09:55:37 N/A N/A 124.5 110.1 60.0 27.67 25.3 23.8
12/18/14 09:35:37 N/A N/A 124.5 110.1 60.0 27.67 18.8 24.3
12/18/14 09:15:37 N/A N/A 124.5 110.1 60.0 27.67 18.2 24.3
12/18/14 08:55:37 N/A N/A 123.8 110.1 60.0 27.67 19.5 24.3
12/18/14 08:35:37 N/A N/A 123.8 110.1 60.0 27.67 19.5 24.3
12/18/14 08:15:37 N/A N/A 123.8 110.1 60.0 27.67 18.2 24.3
12/18/14 07:55:37 N/A N/A 124.5 110.1 60.0 27.67 18.8 24.3
12/18/14 07:35:37 N/A N/A
25.2
123.8 110.1 60.0 27.67 25.3 24.3
12/18/14 07:15:37 N/A N/A 123.1 123.1 60.0 27.67 24.7
12/18/14 06:55:37 N/A N/A 123.1 123.1 60.0 27.67 19.5 24.7
12/18/14 06:35:37 N/A N/A 123.1 123.1 60.0 27.67 24.7 24.7
12/18/14 06:15:37 N/A N/A 120.9 120.9 60.0 27.67 26.0 24.3
12/18/14 05:55:37 N/A N/A 121.6 121.6 60.0 27.67 24.0 24.3
12/18/14 05:55:17 N/A N/A 121.6 N/A N/A 27.67 N/A 24.3

I saw the AVR Trim Line come on around 7:20 AM. If you look at the table above the UPS output voltage went to 110.1 from 123.1. The LED is still on.

sfernan_apc
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Re: SUA1500 - Is it time to replace battery?

This was originally posted on APC forums on 12/18/2014


Sorry for the big post above. Here are the Event logs

Event Log
 
Date  Time  Event 
12/18/14  17:23:10  Communication Established 
12/18/14  17:23:10  Monitoring Started 
12/18/14  17:22:53  Monitoring Stopped 
12/18/14  17:22:39  Communication Established 
12/18/14  17:22:39  Monitoring Started 
12/18/14  17:22:19  Monitoring Stopped 
12/18/14  17:18:41  Communication Established 
12/18/14  17:18:41  Monitoring Started 
12/18/14  17:12:36  Monitoring Stopped 
12/18/14  06:05:26  Self Test Passed 
12/18/14  06:05:13  Self Test Initiated 
12/18/14  05:55:17  Communication Established 
12/18/14  05:55:17  Monitoring Started 

BillP
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Re: SUA1500 - Is it time to replace battery?

This reply was originally posted by Angela on APC forums on 12/19/2014


Hello,

I do know that SUA models like this one will boost or trim voltage by 12% and they also have DoubleBoost for up to 24% boost. So for trim, it looks like it is starting to trim at 124V. I cannot find the specific voltages for boost and trim that we used to have. When the output voltage is 110, that is when it is trimming the input voltage by 12%. I would keep an eye on it but nominal voltage in North America is 120V so if it is consistently higher on that, it may be a problem with the utility provider or construction going on in the area or something like that.

sfernan_apc
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Re: SUA1500 - Is it time to replace battery?

This was originally posted on APC forums on 12/23/2014


Hi Angela, Thought I would monitor for a few days before I replied.  The AVR trim led lights come on every couple of days (and stay on) for some reason. Last time it said "Power Failed" and "Power Restored". This happened within 3 secs but the AVR led stays on.

To turn it off, I did a self-test from software. That worked. The next time it did not and I had to shutdown for about a minute to clear the LED.

I am expecting it to come on later tonite or tomorrow morning.  I have plugged my other smart UPS (SMT100) in an adjacent room to check if it all gets triggered but I have never seen the SMT1000 with the AVR led on.