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SU2200RMI3U Problem charging new batteries

APC UPS Data Center & Enterprise Solutions Forum

Schneider Electric support forum for our Data Center and Business Power UPS, UPS Accessories, Software, Services, and associated commercial products designed to share knowledge, installation, and configuration.

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bvitnik_apc
Crewman
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SU2200RMI3U Problem charging new batteries

This was originally posted on APC forums on 4/6/2015


Hi,

We have a problem with one of our old APC Smart-UPS 2200 (SU2200RMI3U). Recently, batteries were replaced by APC authorized service center and UPS was calibrated (atleast according to service center) but UPS has a problem with charging new batteries. Battery charge bounces between 99% and 100% every couple of minutes or so. The problem seems to be the same as described here:

http://forums.apc.com/spaces/4/back-ups-surge-protectors/forums/general/4755/battery-voltage

Battery voltage is also same (54.55 V). Can you provide me with the same how to solve instructions as you provided Roy from the forum post mentioned above?

Thank you.

Bojan


Accepted Solutions
MarkC_apc
Commander
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2873

Re: SU2200RMI3U Problem charging new batteries

This was originally posted on APC forums on 12/15/2016


Be aware that battery charging parameters are a "balance" between low battery float voltages resulting in lowered SOC (state of charge) and too high float voltages that can "dry" out these UPS batteries prematurely - especially if operated at elevated temperatures. IMO, this should be the determining factor in any such "adjustments" and has been the subject of many posts on this forum - especially for the some of the older SU models that may have been set at too high float.

A good article:

http://www.powerstream.com/SLA.htm

See Answer In Context

20 Replies 20
BillP
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Re: SU2200RMI3U Problem charging new batteries

This reply was originally posted by Angela on APC forums on 4/6/2015


I don't think what you're describing is the same issue in the other thread. Can you confirm what the reported runtime is? The other thread relates to instructions that corrects an incorrectly reported on battery runtime and had nothing to do with charge percentage (which there are no user capabilities to modify voltage or charge %).

bvitnik_apc
Crewman
Crewman
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2873

Re: SU2200RMI3U Problem charging new batteries

This was originally posted on APC forums on 4/6/2015


Dear Angela,

I don't see any mention of the reported runtime in the other thread. Instead, Roy asks about proper battery float voltage. He mention battery charge bouncing between 99% and 100% even after calibration (exactly my problem). While trying to find solution on the internet, I found some information that said that in some rare cases calibration can't fix this problem and that "battery constant value" has to be manually "reprogramed" (using Hyper Terminal or similar software).

On the other hand, reported runtime on my UPS is bouncing between 5040 and 5100 sec depending on battery charge (99% od 100%) with load of 17.1%.

Thank you.

Bojan

BillP
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Re: SU2200RMI3U Problem charging new batteries

This reply was originally posted by Angela on APC forums on 4/6/2015


I'll give you the constant for this UPS if you want to try changing it but the only thing it should affect is the calculated runtime. I'll put my foot in my mouth if I am incorrect.We can't provide the procedure for changing the constant here anymore due to liability reasons but I'll at least confirm the constant for you. I am sure you can find the instructions online somewhere as you've found reference to already but please use them at your own risk.

The constant is AF.

bvitnik_apc
Crewman
Crewman
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2873

Re: SU2200RMI3U Problem charging new batteries

This was originally posted on APC forums on 4/6/2015


Thank you very much.

I have to ask one more thing. If battery constant value is not the cause of this problem, what else can be the cause?

BillP
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2873

Re: SU2200RMI3U Problem charging new batteries

This reply was originally posted by Angela on APC forums on 4/6/2015


I am not sure and will have to investigate further. I'd also want to see a data and event log for review. I know in general, I would not be concerned about 99% reporting instead of 100% but I don't know why it would flip-flop.

bvitnik_apc
Crewman
Crewman
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2873

Re: SU2200RMI3U Problem charging new batteries

This was originally posted on APC forums on 4/7/2015


OK. Sorry for keeping you waiting. Since we have multiple UPS devices with mixed brands, we use one tool to monitor them all - NUT. I can provide you with some data as presented by NUT:

Parameters when battery charge is 99%

battery.alarm.threshold: 0
battery.charge: 099.0
battery.charge.restart: 00
battery.date: 12/25/14
battery.packs: 000
battery.runtime: 5040
battery.runtime.low: 120
battery.voltage: 54.55
battery.voltage.nominal: 048
device.mfr: APC
device.model: SMART-UPS 2200 RM
device.serial: QS0209110916
device.type: ups
driver.name: apcsmart
driver.parameter.pollinterval: 2
driver.parameter.port: /dev/ttyS0
driver.version: 2.6.3
driver.version.internal: 3.0
input.frequency: 50.00
input.quality: FF
input.sensitivity: H
input.transfer.high: 253
input.transfer.low: 196
input.transfer.reason: line voltage notch or spike
input.voltage: 227.5
input.voltage.maximum: 227.5
input.voltage.minimum: 227.5
output.voltage: 228.8
output.voltage.nominal: 230
ups.delay.shutdown: 020
ups.delay.start: 000
ups.firmware: 82.14.I
ups.id: UPS_IDEN
ups.load: 017.1
ups.mfr: APC
ups.mfr.date: 03/02/02
ups.model: SMART-UPS 2200 RM
ups.serial: QS0209110916
ups.status: OL
ups.temperature: 039.1
ups.test.interval: 1209600
ups.test.result: NO

Parameters when battery charge is 100%

battery.alarm.threshold: 0
battery.charge: 100.0
battery.charge.restart: 00
battery.date: 12/25/14
battery.packs: 000
battery.runtime: 5100
battery.runtime.low: 120
battery.voltage: 54.55
battery.voltage.nominal: 048
device.mfr: APC
device.model: SMART-UPS 2200 RM
device.serial: QS0209110916
device.type: ups
driver.name: apcsmart
driver.parameter.pollinterval: 2
driver.parameter.port: /dev/ttyS0
driver.version: 2.6.3
driver.version.internal: 3.0
input.frequency: 50.00
input.quality: FF
input.sensitivity: H
input.transfer.high: 253
input.transfer.low: 196
input.transfer.reason: line voltage notch or spike
input.voltage: 228.8
input.voltage.maximum: 228.8
input.voltage.minimum: 227.5
output.voltage: 228.8
output.voltage.nominal: 230
ups.delay.shutdown: 020
ups.delay.start: 000
ups.firmware: 82.14.I
ups.id: UPS_IDEN
ups.load: 017.1
ups.mfr: APC
ups.mfr.date: 03/02/02
ups.model: SMART-UPS 2200 RM
ups.serial: QS0209110916
ups.status: OL
ups.temperature: 039.1
ups.test.interval: 1209600
ups.test.result: NO

NUT log, every 10 sec (date, time, battery charge, input voltage, load, status - online/onbattery, temperature, input frequency):

20150407 114602 099.0 227.5 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 114612 099.0 227.5 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 114622 099.0 227.5 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 114632 099.0 227.5 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 114642 099.0 228.8 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 114652 099.0 228.8 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 114702 099.0 227.5 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 114712 099.0 227.5 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 114722 099.0 228.8 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 114732 100.0 227.5 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 114742 100.0 227.5 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 114752 100.0 227.5 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 114802 100.0 227.5 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 114812 100.0 227.5 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 114822 100.0 227.5 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 114832 100.0 227.5 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 114842 100.0 227.5 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 114852 100.0 227.5 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 114902 100.0 227.5 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 114912 100.0 227.5 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 114922 100.0 227.5 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 114932 100.0 227.5 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 114942 100.0 228.8 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 114952 100.0 227.5 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 115002 100.0 227.5 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 115012 099.0 227.5 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 115022 099.0 228.8 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 115032 099.0 227.5 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 115042 099.0 227.5 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 115052 099.0 227.5 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 115102 099.0 227.5 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 115112 099.0 227.5 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 115122 099.0 227.5 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 115132 100.0 227.5 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 115142 100.0 227.5 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 115152 100.0 227.5 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 115202 100.0 227.5 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 115212 100.0 227.5 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 115222 100.0 227.5 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 115232 100.0 227.5 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00
20150407 115242 100.0 227.5 017.1 [OL] 039.1 50.00

BillP
Administrator Administrator
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2873

Re: SU2200RMI3U Problem charging new batteries

This reply was originally posted by Angela on APC forums on 4/7/2015


Thanks for the data. I am familiar with NUT (or at least its existance.)

I asked my colleague that handles Smart-UPS products. He did not think the battery constants would do anything and if anything, could cause problems for people who modify them when their battery is older. I know you just replaced yours last week so it is not as big of a deal if you were to adjust it.

What he told me is that it does not necessarily think that the UPS is not charged to 100% and it is likely cosmetic. Keep in mind this model is 15-20+ years old as far as when it was designed, coded, etc so it very well could have a bug.

My colleague said a manual runtime calibration may fix it but he was skeptical and you'll also waste a discharge on your battery to address it. If you'd like to proceed with this, manual runtime calibration instructions/criteria are explained here: http://www.apc.com/support/index?page=content&country=ITB〈=en&locale=en_US&id=FA156538 (and keep in mind, those are only the instructions which are recommended as a solution to another issue so just focus on the manual calibration instructions.)

If it were me in all honesty, I just think this is cosmetic and would not waste time doing a calibration and discharging your batteries. I'd keep an eye on it and see if it clears up and go from there. Many UPSs seem to have this behavior between 99% and 100% from what I have seen. If it were going to 90% or something, I'd say we likely have an issue but I just think this is an annoying cosmetic thing in my experience.

Let me know if you have any questions.

bvitnik_apc
Crewman
Crewman
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2873

Re: SU2200RMI3U Problem charging new batteries

This was originally posted on APC forums on 4/7/2015


Thanks for the info.

In the meantime I tried to do "software calibration" via NUT. I connected some 500W of lightbulbs to UPS (35% load), waited for UPS to show 100% battery charge and initiated calibration. UPS discharged batteries up until 25% of charge and it took around 38 minutes. Initialy estimated runtime was 2520 sec (42 min). After that, UPS returned to online status and it took around 2:30h to charge batteries to 100% (with no load). Unfortunately, that didn't solve the problem with bouncing battery charge between 99% and 100%. I'm not sure if doing manual calibration (i.e. unpluging the UPS from the wall) will make any difference.

There is one more thing I'm concerned with. While UPS was charging the batteries, it was running rather cool (around 28C, cool on touch) and internal fan was running. When it charged batteries to 100% it returned to it's "usual" temperature (around 39C, very warm on touch) and it seem's that fan was not running any more. Is this temperature normal for this model of UPS?

For the end i'd like to mention that I checked battery constant value after I did software calibration. The value is "A2". I still didn'd try to change it.

BillP
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Re: SU2200RMI3U Problem charging new batteries

This reply was originally posted by Angela on APC forums on 4/8/2015


Hi again,

Fan operation sounds normal as you described what you saw. Older models would only turn the internal fan on when charging, when on battery, load above 75%, and then if the UPS internal temp was 140ºF or higher. In SUA models, the figure changed to internal temp having to be 104ºF or higher. We have that documented here -> http://www.apc.com/support/index?page=content&country=ITB〈=en&locale=en_US&id=FA156553 

bvitnik_apc
Crewman
Crewman
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2873

Re: SU2200RMI3U Problem charging new batteries

This was originally posted on APC forums on 4/8/2015


Great. Thanks.

bvitnik_apc
Crewman
Crewman
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2873

Re: SU2200RMI3U Problem charging new batteries

This was originally posted on APC forums on 4/20/2015


I would just like to inform you that I managed to solve this problem. Battery is steady at 100% for more than a week now. The procedure is not documented, its rather invasive and probably not endorsed by APC so I will not publish the solution here. If someone is interested, just comment on this thread and I will send you the solution via personal message.

mudasar8k_apc
Crewman
Crewman
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2873

Re: SU2200RMI3U Problem charging new batteries

This was originally posted on APC forums on 10/13/2015


Hi Bojan,

I am facing same proble as you were. Can you please share the solution with me.

Thank you.

bvitnik_apc
Crewman
Crewman
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2873

Re: SU2200RMI3U Problem charging new batteries

This was originally posted on APC forums on 10/14/2015


I have sent you an e-mail. Have you received it?

BillP
Administrator Administrator
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Re: SU2200RMI3U Problem charging new batteries

This reply was originally posted by Justin on APC forums on 4/5/2016


Bojan,

Would you mind sending me the instructions on this as well. I'm currently experiencing the same issues with our APC units. We ordered 5 units, but the 2 that are experiencing this issue are the same model (the others are different). These are the SMX3000RMLV2U model. Thanks in advance.

J.T.

bvitnik_apc
Crewman
Crewman
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2873

Re: SU2200RMI3U Problem charging new batteries

This was originally posted on APC forums on 4/5/2016


I have sent you the instructions via e-mail. Good luck.

BillP
Administrator Administrator
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Re: SU2200RMI3U Problem charging new batteries

This reply was originally posted by Justin on APC forums on 4/5/2016


Got it. I appreciate the quick response. I'll probably be giving this a shot tonight. Enjoy the rest of your day!

BillP
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Re: SU2200RMI3U Problem charging new batteries

This reply was originally posted by Jonathan on APC forums on 12/14/2016


I would love to receive the procedure as well, facing the same issue! As long as you put a warning that it might not be recommended by APC, I don't see any problem with putting the info in here?

bvitnik_apc
Crewman
Crewman
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2873

Re: SU2200RMI3U Problem charging new batteries

This was originally posted on APC forums on 12/14/2016


WARNING: NOT RECOMENDED BY APC. TURN AROUND AND NEVER LOOK BACK!

Hi All,

Here is all the info you need to fix the problem.

First of all, this only works on this exact model - SU2200RMI3U. Don't use the variables/commands mentioned below on other models because they can have a completely different meaning and purpose. Required knowledge:

1) Familiarize yourself with the "Hidden programing mode" of APC Smart UPSes:

http://support.rm.com/TechnicalArticle.asp?cref=TEC817072&nav=0&referrer=rss

If above link doesn't work, try getting it from Google cache.

What you need to learn is how to get into programming mode, set variable(s) and get out. In this guide, only variable "0" (battery constant) is shown but there are others.

2) Familiarize yourself with other available variables. You are interested in variable "B" (battery voltmeter gain):

http://osdir.com/ml/monitoring.nut.user/2007-01/msg00120.html

On some UPS models, "B" variable is "battery charging voltage", not "battery voltmeter gain" so be very very careful.

What I did to fix my problem was to change the B variable from value FA to value FB (hexadecimal). Both values show 54.05 V for battery voltage but FB does not oscillate battery charge between 99% and 100%.

WARNING: Do it on your own risk!!! You can pretty much destroy your UPS if you do something improperly or if you have a different UPS model. APC will not offer you any help on this. You are on your own!!!

Good luck.

Bojan

Brad_C_apc
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Re: SU2200RMI3U Problem charging new batteries

This was originally posted on APC forums on 12/14/2016


On 15/12/2016 6:13 AM, Bojan said:

On some UPS models, "B" variable is "battery charging voltage", not "battery voltmeter gain" so be very very careful.

Actually on all models B is the battery volt meter gain. It's just that on SUA models the microprocessor can change the float voltage, so as you change the battery voltmeter gain it alters the output voltage to attempt to maintain it's ideal set point. On the earlier (less than generation 4) models the float voltage is set in hardware, so the B constant just changes how the voltage reads.

MarkC_apc
Commander
Commander
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2874

Re: SU2200RMI3U Problem charging new batteries

This was originally posted on APC forums on 12/15/2016


Be aware that battery charging parameters are a "balance" between low battery float voltages resulting in lowered SOC (state of charge) and too high float voltages that can "dry" out these UPS batteries prematurely - especially if operated at elevated temperatures. IMO, this should be the determining factor in any such "adjustments" and has been the subject of many posts on this forum - especially for the some of the older SU models that may have been set at too high float.

A good article:

http://www.powerstream.com/SLA.htm