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Can I safely connect 5 SU48RMXLBP with 5 SUA48XLBP packs with an SUA3000XL?

APC UPS Data Center & Enterprise Solutions Forum

Schneider Electric support forum for our Data Center and Business Power UPS, UPS Accessories, Software, Services, and associated commercial products designed to share knowledge, installation, and configuration.

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BillP
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Can I safely connect 5 SU48RMXLBP with 5 SUA48XLBP packs with an SUA3000XL?

This question was originally posted by Glenn on APC forums on 11/1/2008


I have an SU2200RMXLNET UPS with 5 SU48RMXLBP battery packs. I also have a new SUA3000XL UPS with 5 SUA48XLBP battery packs. If I wanted to extend the run time on the SUA3000XL, would it be safe/adviseable to connect all 10 battery packs together to attach to the SUA3000XL?

The documentation states that the SUA3000XL will take up to 10 battery packs in total (as opposed to a maximum of 5 for the SU2200RMXLNET), so it seems like I'm OK there. The batteries themselves are exactly the same (RBC11 appears to be exactly the same as RBC55 except for the connector). There are no electronics in the battery packs, just physical wire connections. However, the connectors are different - the older packs use an Anderson SB50 connector and the newer packs use an Anderson SB120 connector - and the newer packs have AWG 6 cables as opposed to AWG 8 cables on the older ones.

If I made up a 6 gauge cable with an SB50 connector on one side and an SB120 on the other and used that to connect the two chains of battery packs, would that be acceptable and safe? Your thoughts, APC gurus!


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EricG1793_apc
Crewman
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Re: Can I safely connect 5 SU48RMXLBP with 5 SUA48XLBP packs with an SUA3000XL?

This was originally posted on APC forums on 2/25/2013


I'm trying to get several UPS's running after being neglected by a previous worker. We have 2 SUA2200s in our datacenter and she replaced the batteries in 1 a year before she left, and the batteries in the other went bad shortly after she left. I found a pair of "APC batteries" in our storage closet that I assumed must be for the other SUA2200, but the connectors were different. I did research and found out that the replacements were RBC11 and I needed RBC55. Meanwhile, we also have an SU3000NET that hasn't been running for a few years in a networking closet that I realized the RBC11 is compatible with, so I installed them in that. The thing charged up fine, started, did its self test, then I left it turned off and charging for a few days, connected a few old switches to test it with, turned it on, it seemed to pass the self test, the online let came on solid green, and a few seconds later, the overload light and constant beep came on, even with just one 24-port switch connected. I read elsewhere that this is bad news and that the UPS should not be operated. If it runs the self-test with nothing connected, it'll be OK, and I can then connect a switch (I only tried 1) without issue.

As an aside -- these "new" batteries arrived here in March 2006, and I opened the sealed package from APC for this job. Being that old, for all I know they could be the problem, but it seems weird that they would charge, pass the self-test, no battery replacement indicator, etc.

Then I thought about moving the old RBC55 connector to those new RBC11 batteries, however the post above puts me off from that. I think I read elsewhere that the SUA series charge twice as fast as the SU series, so I guess that using the RBC11 batteries in the SUA2200 might result in catastrophy, am I right?

We also have 2 SU750s (not sure of model bus they're 750s and white) and 1 SUA1000 that were just sitting in their network closets being unused and won't power up, 1 SUA1000 that needs battery replacement but is still running, and finally 1 SU2200 that was in storage, with the closet it came from having no UPS in it at all, and 2 closets that apparently have never had UPS's. Big job!

Message was edited by: EricG1793

See Answer In Context

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Erasmus_apc
Sisko
Sisko
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Re: Can I safely connect 5 SU48RMXLBP with 5 SUA48XLBP packs with an SUA300

This was originally posted on APC forums on 11/3/2008


APC does not support the use of make-shift adapters for our battery pack systems.

Can it work? Possibly, but due to safety concerns in addition to possible performance risks we can offer no guidance here. As a side note, I would not recommend connecting all 10 of those batteries together even if the adapter was guaranteed to work since you would likely put the battery charger of the UPS under excessive stress. Some of our extended battery systems have special characteristics which require them to be "counted" as a larger battery system when used. The SU48RMXLBP is one of those battery systems. Due to it's form factor and battery characteristics we count that pack as 2 battpacks when setting the XL pack up in the EEPROM of the Smart-UPS unit. Other such exceptions include the UXBP24/48 which are set as +5+ packs.

So basically, if you set up 5 of the SU packs and 5 SUA packs, you would effectively have 15 packs seen by the unit, which is not recommended.

BillP
Administrator Administrator
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Re: Can I safely connect 5 SU48RMXLBP with 5 SUA48XLBP packs with an SUA3000XL?

This reply was originally posted by Glenn on APC forums on 11/3/2008


The APC documentation appears to differ from your interpretation. The older SU48RMXLBP battery packs were indeed counted as two batteries each, and there was a maximum of 10 batteries, or 5 total physical packs, pursuant to this documentation:

[http://www.apcmedia.com/salestools/ASTE-6Z8LB2_R0_EN.pdf]

However, the documentation for the SUA48XLBP states that a total of 10 packs+ can be connected--see page 3 at the following documentation link;

[http://www.apcmedia.com/salestools/ASTE-6YWRZV_R0_EN.pdf]

These two packs have the exact same battery specifications - the only differences are the connectors and the gauge of the wire, as far as I can tell. In terms of amp-hours, they are exactly the same. So why would having ten packs - five of the old and five of the new, be any different from having ten of the new?

Erasmus_apc
Sisko
Sisko
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172

Re: Can I safely connect 5 SU48RMXLBP with 5 SUA48XLBP packs with an SUA300

This was originally posted on APC forums on 11/4/2008


glenncohen wrote:
The APC documentation appears to differ from your interpretation. The older SU48RMXLBP battery packs were indeed counted as two batteries each, and there was a maximum of 10 batteries, or 5 total physical packs, pursuant to this documentation:

[http://www.apcmedia.com/salestools/ASTE-6Z8LB2_R0_EN.pdf]
Correct, there were varying types with varying "maximum" number of physical packs allowed.
glenncohen wrote:
However, the documentation for the SUA48XLBP states that a total of 10 packs can be connected--see page 3 at the following documentation link;

http://www.apcmedia.com/salestools/ASTE-6YWRZV_R0_EN.pdf
That manual doesn't state anything about physical packs...it still uses the wording the other manual used for referring to external battery packs. The reason it is so simple with the newer unit is because all of the external batts used by this SUA model you have are one pack in the EEPROM per addition. So instead of having to think about "oh is this counting as two or five (UXBP) or one?" it's just one per pack. The charging system in the SU models was quite different than in the SUA models (translate as: less efficient) and the older battery packs were designed around that fact (internal wiring, DC cable, manufacturer's specs). Additionally, we used different battery manufacturers for our older vs. newer external batts. All of the above help to explain why we had some different instructions on the older SU packs than the SUA, and why the performance on them may differ slightly.

Long story short, even if the connection is made between all the packs, they weren't designed to work with each other and you may very well have serious runtime issues or prematurely failed batts at the worst. Again, as stated before, APC does not support a configuration like this at all.

BillP
Administrator Administrator
Administrator
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Re: Can I safely connect 5 SU48RMXLBP with 5 SUA48XLBP packs with an SUA3000XL?

This reply was originally posted by Glenn on APC forums on 11/14/2008


So, to confirm then, it is OK to connect ten SUA48XLBP packs to the SUA3000XL, but only five SU48RMXLBP packs to the SU2200RMXLNET, and when configuring the EEPROM you enter 10 packs for both of these configurations?

And also, is there any electrical difference between the RBC55 batteries (the new ones) and the RBC11 batteries (the old ones)? They seem to be the same except for the connectors.

BillP
Administrator Administrator
Administrator
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172

Re: Can I safely connect 5 SU48RMXLBP with 5 SUA48XLBP packs with an SUA3000XL?

This reply was originally posted by Glenn on APC forums on 12/12/2008


Following up on this. Is there any electrical difference between the RBC11 batteries and the RBC55 batteries? The only difference I see is the connector size. The volt-amp-hours and size appear exactly the same. Please advise if there is any difference electrically or in charging, or anything else. Thanks.

Erasmus_apc
Sisko
Sisko
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172

Re: Can I safely connect 5 SU48RMXLBP with 5 SUA48XLBP packs with an SUA3000XL?

This was originally posted on APC forums on 12/15/2008


The batteries for the RBC 11 are 2x12v, 15-17AH. The batteries for the RBC55 are 2x12v, 17AH and are also specced for the charging system and charging frequency of the SUA-type (newer) Smart-UPS UPS systems. These are not specifics we can give out. The manufacturer's specs also show some differences for each respective battery. Short answer: yes they are different.

EricG1793_apc
Crewman
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173

Re: Can I safely connect 5 SU48RMXLBP with 5 SUA48XLBP packs with an SUA3000XL?

This was originally posted on APC forums on 2/25/2013


I'm trying to get several UPS's running after being neglected by a previous worker. We have 2 SUA2200s in our datacenter and she replaced the batteries in 1 a year before she left, and the batteries in the other went bad shortly after she left. I found a pair of "APC batteries" in our storage closet that I assumed must be for the other SUA2200, but the connectors were different. I did research and found out that the replacements were RBC11 and I needed RBC55. Meanwhile, we also have an SU3000NET that hasn't been running for a few years in a networking closet that I realized the RBC11 is compatible with, so I installed them in that. The thing charged up fine, started, did its self test, then I left it turned off and charging for a few days, connected a few old switches to test it with, turned it on, it seemed to pass the self test, the online let came on solid green, and a few seconds later, the overload light and constant beep came on, even with just one 24-port switch connected. I read elsewhere that this is bad news and that the UPS should not be operated. If it runs the self-test with nothing connected, it'll be OK, and I can then connect a switch (I only tried 1) without issue.

As an aside -- these "new" batteries arrived here in March 2006, and I opened the sealed package from APC for this job. Being that old, for all I know they could be the problem, but it seems weird that they would charge, pass the self-test, no battery replacement indicator, etc.

Then I thought about moving the old RBC55 connector to those new RBC11 batteries, however the post above puts me off from that. I think I read elsewhere that the SUA series charge twice as fast as the SU series, so I guess that using the RBC11 batteries in the SUA2200 might result in catastrophy, am I right?

We also have 2 SU750s (not sure of model bus they're 750s and white) and 1 SUA1000 that were just sitting in their network closets being unused and won't power up, 1 SUA1000 that needs battery replacement but is still running, and finally 1 SU2200 that was in storage, with the closet it came from having no UPS in it at all, and 2 closets that apparently have never had UPS's. Big job!

Message was edited by: EricG1793